Lead Time
Lead Time
Inside Concordia Texas: Campus Pastor Jake Boessling unpacks Teaching, Transition, and Transformation
Get a backstage pass to the diverse and Christ-centered community of Concordia Texas as we sit down with Reverend Jacob Boessling, the Campus Pastor. Discover the unique dynamics among the student body, the challenges faced by first-generation college-goers, and how Concordia maintains a welcoming, inclusive environment with Jesus at its center. Reverend Jake also shares an intriguing perspective on how non-Christians can be drawn near into Jesus' love in unique ways.
Our exchange navigates through the tricky terrain of emotional safety, the significance of different viewpoints as exemplified by Jesus, and the vital role of relationship-building within the LCMS. Experience the eye-opening account of Jake Boessling's journey as a rostered worker and the profound impact of joy on his experience.
In the latter part of our conversation, we delve into the dramatic shift at Concordia Texas, where 15 Campus pastors chart their course following the Concordia board's decision to be self-governed. Follow their journey, the support they received, and the unique stories that emerged from the process. We also take a detour into the world of organic farming with Apricot Farms in LA, showcasing it as a metaphor for diversity. This engaging episode will have you reflecting on the necessity of multiple perspectives and experiences within the church's mission and the importance of creating a harmonious ecosystem to sustain it. Get ready for a thought-provoking ride!
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Leigh Time is a podcast of the Unite Leadership Collective, hosted by Tim Ollman and Jack Calliberg. The ULC envisages the future in which all congregations fully equip the priesthood of all the leavers through world-class leadership development at the local level. Leigh Time taps into biblical wisdom for practical solutions to today's burning issues. Each podcast confronts real-time struggles facing the local church in a post-Christian culture. Step into the action with the ULC at UniteLeadershiporg. This is Leigh Time.
Speaker 2:Welcome to Leigh Time, tim Ollman here. Jack Calliberg is still on vacation. I have the privilege of having my longtime partner in the gospel at Christ Greenfield Lutheran Church and School Family and Ministries, the Reverend Jacob Besslin, who is the campus pastor at Concordia, texas, now for the last 18 months. Before that, though, my partner on Leigh Time, and I miss you, we miss you. The Christ Greenfield family loves and cares for the Besslin family Big time.
Speaker 2:We're proud of the work you've been doing and I figured you know Don and Christy have been on Leigh Time and there's been a lot of conversation about what's going on at CTX. But I just wanted to allow listeners to hear your heart. I think Jim Marriott, who you partner with the head of theology there he's gonna be on talking soon and the goal here, listener, is to hold your views with an open hand regarding this story. If you are coming to two quick of conclusions apart from relationship, you may be all wrong, and one of my Jake you and I were just talking about this. One of my goals is that, as we head into convention and as we just function as the church, we would keep the main thing, the main thing, and then, as we talk about different opportunities for growth, whether it's with institutions, bylaws, resolutions, all that kind of stuff. The tone would allow us to think that the tenor would not be so intense and just you know, saying Concordia, texas is the problem.
Speaker 2:And I think we have a dysfunctional church body in some regards, like every system has dysfunction in it. Right, because we're sinners, jake. But how do we enter into these complex conversations and hold our viewpoints very, very loosely, especially as we talk about brothers and sisters within our tribe, the Lutheran Church, missouri Synod. So how are you doing, Jake and I mean that generally how are you doing, especially in light of everything that's been kind of swirling here recently?
Speaker 3:Yeah well, thanks, tim, thanks for having me on and lead time. Listeners, it's an honor to share a little bit more about my own story and the Concordia Texas story, and Christ Greenfield shout out to you as well and miss all of you, brothers and sisters in Christ, there in Gilbert Arizona. I'm excited about the future of Concordia Texas. We actually are bringing in this next class, this next freshman class really the largest freshman class in the last five years and this transition then of governance has really not affected many of our day-to-day work at the university. We're informed about it, but it doesn't really change what we're all about.
Speaker 3:We graduated hundreds of students in this past April to go on to the world, to be empowered. I mean people from all backgrounds. Many of them are first-generation college students, first person to walk across that stage in their family, and now they're gonna lead lives of critical thought, compassionate action and courageous leadership. So now life is good in the summer, right, as a college minister, resting, regrouping, reflecting and reorganizing for student leaders to come back in the fall. And yeah, so life is good at Concordia Texas.
Speaker 2:I'd love to hear that. Give us the lay of the land a little bit. I mean Concordia, Texas, not culture. We're not talking theology here, but not just because it's in Austin, but because of the students that the Lord has led to you Like. It looks remarkably different and it always has, in my perspective than maybe Concordia Seward, Concordia, Nebraska. So talk about the demographics and the types of students that you're sending out as missionaries into the world.
Speaker 3:Yeah, like I said, a little over 40% of our students have had no one in their family go to college, and so when you have a student like that, some simple things maybe, where certain things on campus are, might be something not only hard to find but hard to ask help for, because it's just so daunting to find your way through things. Or someone moving off 30 minutes to a couple three hours away is a daunting task for a student. So once we have them here, we do everything that we can to really walk alongside of them to help them. Demographic wise, we probably have about 35% Hispanic students we are a Hispanic serving institution and then different people of color throughout that as well, but it's trending toward really white being a minority on campus. It's for our student life In my 18 months too, like listening to students and hearing them say, like some of the students that are black, I haven't seen any black professors Like I really want to have a black professor, and so that's just, that's their story, that's their life. They've seen a different culture, always mirrored to them and imaged to them, and it's really good to observe that and hear their heart and really see what they're seeing and feeling.
Speaker 3:Our values, I mean right off the bat, is Christ centered. Christ centered, that's one of the biggest lenses we have. You know that Christ is honored, but all are welcome. And the biggest change from the life of a pastor in a local community many of our local communities there aren't a lot of non-Christians coming into worship. There's not a lot of non-christians stumbling in saying, just tell me about Jesus today, right, but on this campus, and I'm sure many others, and it feels even more, it feels safe, but it feels like there's just a lot of people that have not heard that message of Jesus.
Speaker 3:And so you have this opportunity where people are stumbling into spaces, or they're required to be in spaces, where they're gonna hear about Jesus Christ, where they're gonna hear about the Lutheran Confessions, where they're gonna hear us recite a creed, and so, contextually, we're trying to do everything we can to make them feel safe, exposed to the message of Jesus as one of our admissions leaders says, jesus and his friends, and enjoy that process. But it is an institution that tries to get people to walk across the stage to graduate, not the right-hanking them, only church, local church, with Word and sacraments, sunday after Sunday. So it's a different thing than that. But that's a little bit about our background and just kind of entering into that the differences of church and university, but trying to steward the students that God has brought to us well, yeah, and our universities, our blessed Concordia's.
Speaker 2:They are not the church, your primary organization. There's been some people and I forget the name of the blog that came out, I think Steadfast Lutherans or something like that. And the gentleman it was a fine-written little article. He talked about the conversation I had with Christy and Don and made the comment that they are governed differently than the church. And my only response to that is one yes and then two.
Speaker 2:All I was trying to say, jake, was that it's a complex organization in which you all and all of the Concordia's kind of navigate today, and I think there needs to be a lot more humility to understand the diverse contexts in which all of our Concordia's are trying to do their work, all with and I know all of the presidents all with a mission toward seeking and saving the lost and discipling the found to do so.
Speaker 2:And then the core confession of our Lutheran doctrine and the story of what it means to be Lutheran. We're trying to steward that very, very well in very, very diverse contexts. And one other thing like you and I and the vast majority of people in the Lutheran Church, missouri Synod are going to be in the minority in the coming generation here in the United States of America. So I don't know what are we gonna do. Are we gonna hunker down, jake, or are we gonna go and say I have a lot to learn about the various cultures and contexts that make up being the church, being a Christian in the United States of America, more to say, there?
Speaker 3:Yeah, well, just that, if I was to enter back into a local congregation, just thinking through what have I learned here? That would apply there and I think it would be. I can't change the demographics necessarily and overnight of course I can't make more people move into certain neighborhoods. But I can start to pray that the community that I find myself in would become more diverse, like Revelation, chapter seven. That would attract people like Jesus, attract people from different socioeconomics, different genders, different religions and different races. So a heartbeat for that prayer to become a reality, if it's God's will and God takes care of the rest.
Speaker 3:But in addition, if you wanna reflect the community and some of those community members aren't reflected in your leadership, in the different things that are going on at the heartbeat of the church, there's some easy wins there to listen and be close to those people. I mean just recently listened into a documentary on Hillsong right and listening to the struggle that Carl Lentz went through of listening to people of color and then them saying and this is I'm not trying to be one-sided, carl probably has his own, I think I even saw that just his own interpretation of it and how hard it is to be listening and learning and platforming. But then some people say, hey, after three weeks it kind of just went away, nothing really changed. So may a lot of these Concordias and a lot of different churches be an incubator, a prototype of different places that are different than other contexts and what we can learn there.
Speaker 2:Well, man, so much to say.
Speaker 2:If the system and I think everybody's knowing a very, very conservative I think again we gotta differentiate this conversation from the gender and sexuality conversation that is set aside right If we're just talking diversity and bringing diverse people to the table from a variety of different, not just racial backgrounds but socioeconomic backgrounds.
Speaker 2:You and I share this.
Speaker 2:We have set up so many barriers toward being a leader in the church.
Speaker 2:Being the person that's in the pulpit, on the platform and, honestly, unless you're middle to middle upper class, going through our leadership journey right now, requires you to have a lot of resources and or be connected to people that have a lot of resources, and so the incubator work we're doing here with companies based theological education and the lower cost model like this is a justice issue to raise up more lower income folks to go and engage in their community many of them so we have in the Lutheran Church Missouri Synod and many denominations, because it's an Enlightenment higher ed type model.
Speaker 2:We've set up a system that kind of requires you to come from a fair amount of wealth today, and I don't think that's going to serve us very, very well moving forward unless we can figure out some of those systems, reimagine those systems, and that's not a liberal statement, we just say reimagine. The statement I just made is absolutely fact, as you look at the numbers and the amount of money it takes to go through the higher ed journey, and so I appreciate your work toward that end, we partner the term that I have adopted recently is equity.
Speaker 3:just that you have different needs than I have, than the person walking through homelessness and confidentially, then as well, that can be addressed. Hey, what is it going to take to get you to education and what is your need? And so just calling that out and then walking alongside people to get them the best education possible.
Speaker 2:Yep was listening to a new podcast with Reverend Dr Pat Ferry. He's got Listen Up, I think is what it's called, something like that. You gotta look it up. But he talked about church worker wellness and how that's a huge struggle. He had Bruce Hartung on there Rick Mars from the seminary Bruce is now Hartung. One of my favorite professors is recently retired. But they talked a lot about emotional safety and the ability to actually speak and how in some pockets within our synod we've not created emotional safety for people who have differing opinions to speak, and that's not healthy, bro. I pray our churches and our institutions model that. So if you have a diverse perspective, bring it right. Jesus modeled that, jake, and you're not gonna like mortally wound me, you know. I got my opinion, you got your opinion. It's all based on relationships of love and trust. But the safety component if there's not enough emotional safety, people on the margins are simply not going to speak. Anything else to add there, jake?
Speaker 3:I think joy and how formative that is. Maybe you've read it. But the other half of church and just brain science, that everything kind of comes in as you hear it through the back right of your brain, goes through the right side, front back to the left and really the majority of it is this formative right side one of the words. But you don't have to think about it, it's just it reacts, it's just instant. Right and left side is logical. So we talk to each other, we get mad at each other, we kind of fight or fight from that in the amygdala. But what are the things on the right side that are forming us to have an instant reaction?
Speaker 3:And I think in the Lutheran Church of Missouri Senate I mean even from the Louis of Ages, you didn't really have those discussions and never had joy and even in some of the experiences there wasn't a lot of joy that were supposed to be really positive experiences.
Speaker 3:So, as you asked the question at the end, like what would the future of the LCMFs look like?
Speaker 3:I mean more joy on both sides. And I think the joy in Jesus is when he was bringing people finally together and they got it and that would be forming them. So how awesome would it be that our first instinct would be joy to have these discussions and I see it in you right, like trying to bring people from different backgrounds together to have discussions, and there's joy on your face that we would just look at each other's faces. I mean I wonder in these discussions, like just start with looking at each other's eyes for three minutes and then start talking about the issues. So what do you need to do at the convention, like look at someone that's different than you for the first two minutes of the day and just think about you don't know the person, but that they are here, they are Christian, they are Lutheran and they have a spiritual walk, and just think of those types of thoughts and there'd be a lot more joy for everyone in the room.
Speaker 2:Yes, jake, that's it. I love that you bring up the other side of the church and neuroscience because, yeah, we've allowed various patterns that move to the left linear logical side and we've allowed some inappropriate behavior within our wider system. And it starts with joy, unlocking joy, and then from joy flows curiosity and we're all working at this together and a lot of people may think, oh, that's just soft stuff, that's just your EQ. People are like no, that is it, man. If we lose the ability to connect with people, you could be the smartest person, whatever man, but if you can't connect the gospel to the heart and minds of people, if you can't have mirroring skills that look at someone in the face when they're you know from the youngest of age we mirror right? Jake, if you're happy, I'm happy. If you're super ticked off, you're gonna get me super ticked off. Let's not live there, let's live in the joy of the Lord. Let that be our strength, amen. So people are curious, dude, like what did it mean?
Speaker 2:Tell the story of being a rostered worker. You worked, I saw this firsthand man. You worked so hard, not just as a DCE, but then four years as a vicar at Christ Greenfield in the cross-cultural ministry pastoral formation program, which was awesome, by the way. You know, I still teach in that program. And then you got full rostered general pastor ordination status through the CMC, which SMP guys you don't get there right now but the CMC guys and those that have been residential have. And then this happens you just take a call campus pastor, love CTX, love Texas. What's going on there, man? How did that all play out?
Speaker 3:Yeah, there's about 15 of us that had been called to Concordia and right off the top of this I would just say totally respect the process that the Senate, cus and our board and our president went through and the art that our board would come to the conclusion to be self-governed, totally content within the. The response to that by our district president had to be something we don't want to be in or out, we want to be with, and there's just not a box for that right now. So, without having a box, you go to the bylaws and the bylaws basically said that they're not a calling entity anymore Concordia. And so President Newman did what he needed to do as the current ecclesial supervisor in Texas. However, on the emotional side of that, as he knows and what he's been doing and was right there with us all, 15 of us are just kind of hurt and grieving more than we thought we would.
Speaker 3:We knew about this decision coming and thought, yeah, it'll be fine, it'll be fine. And then you see it in writing, you see the urgency of our bylaws saying that pastors have 30 days to make a decision on what they need to do next. Commission workers have 120 days. I don't know the difference, but you have to get a couple more months. So a few of us had to speed that up and we had three options you can resign from the roster, you can receive a call from another church or callable entity or, third, you can be a rostered. Status change to inactive. Candidate status inactive candidate status.
Speaker 3:So I think I can't speak our own. But majority of us took the third option immediately just to get it out of the way to be a rostered, still on the roster inactive candidate status. Someone like Dr Marriott who you're going to have on is probably the first now to receive a call outside of Concordia that he's accepted in Faith, georgetown. So it's a the only call and he's still employed here at Concordia and so, yeah, it's an identity thing. I mean a lot of us, having grown up in the church, seen called workers, heard about it, heard the interior call from God For me it was, you know, reading through the Bible sophomore junior year and seeing like Jesus came to serve. I want to serve. Seeing the ministers around me, dcs, pastors, music leaders, male and female called and thinking I want to be a part of that, going through all the processes, all the hard work to be called and I think in our synod, then I mean there's a real identity of being called, being called. I can't speak for everyone, but I would imagine other people would feel that same same identity that you have to the hierarchy that you just mentioned. You're either called and in this thing or you're really not. So it was very disheartening to instantly basically not have that call so, but today this has been about. I don't know.
Speaker 3:45 days ago, after we came together as called workers with area pastors and leaders, shared communion, lamenting, rejoicing, being grateful as well, and listening to the word of God really helped mourn that previous kind of experience and move forward to know that Moses didn't have call papers, nor did Abraham.
Speaker 3:But we move forward then, knowing that at this time there's really just not a box for Concordia Texas to all be called by Concordia. My hope would have been, and maybe still is, that a district could come in and all call us united in that way. However, how it's shaking out, it is kind of cool to see the response of churches that every one of our called workers have received an invitation, I would say, to at least have a conversation about having a call from somewhere, and some of that's around the globe. One of my colleagues is talking to someone internationally, others throughout the United States and others here locally in Austin. So it's really cool. Thank you, churches, for stepping up and say, hey, we support what you're doing there at Concordia Texas and we would love to be a part of that.
Speaker 2:It's one I'm sorry for the struggle I can only imagine, and I'm also excited about the creative opportunities to call leaders like yourself. So full transparency. Christ Greenfield just sent an email right before this exploring, calling Pastor Jacob Bestling to Christ Greenfield and then deploying him as a missionary campus pastor to Concordia. Concordia, texas.
Speaker 3:Yeah no, that'd be the second call I had to Christ Greenfield.
Speaker 2:I love that. There we go, there we go. That'd be. That's a very unique story, bro. It's so fun. So what would you say? You know, go ahead.
Speaker 3:Well, yeah, I just think, as we continue in our Senate, it would just be I don't have any answers, but just interesting to explore. You know the current call processes and how we do that. It just calls some of that maybe into question for me. You know there's people in our Senate that that I've already know they. You submit the forms, you kind of let it go and you pray about it and maybe you never receive a call. Other people, their networks, they talk to people, other people will charismatic, they get more calls, you know. So just kind of just taking through the whole call process in general. Now, what got me through this? The whole time I went from Christ greenfold to here. You're praying about it, you're in community and you're discerning, and that's what matters most that a group of people have identified that you're the next person to lead them and that that God has really given you that clarity along the way. So I do have that at Corry of Texas and and that's exciting.
Speaker 2:That is exciting, it's awesome. What would you say To someone who is super agitated about the whole thing and really is heading into convention With a chip in their shoulder and just frankly angry at at Concordia, texas, and maybe I've heard you know, you guys can't do this, you're stealing the property, blah, blah, blah, all of that. What would you? What would you say to them, jake?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I wrote some notes here. I mean, first off, I am thankful that I am not on the board, nor was I in the room when this huge decision was made now.
Speaker 3:I would have totally been a part of that, but I didn't need to be and not my place. Therefore, I'm thankful for the leaders In all of the communities we're talking about that. I pray, have been praying about it, discerning, fasting and seeking God's will right. So for you, delegate, know there's two sides of the story, right? My hope for the convention is that somehow there'd be a dialogue with at least someone from Concordia, texas, and people from Senate to have to model the joy in that dialogue. Although it's so complex, although it is about properties and church workers, students, lives at stake one of our beloved Concordia's. It would be great to For delegates to seek that, that two-sidedness of the story, beyond what you've read online, even from us and Even from minne1 and LCM. As ink, I mean one of the latest reporting reporter articles About three weeks ago. I mean it really didn't quote anyone from the court of Texas, it didn't Ask for any story lines from Concordia, texas. So it would just be good to have a little bit more of both sides story. If you haven't yet, delegate, go to Our website, concordiaedu, and I believe it's slash faith, identity and on there. I love the timeline that we have given you that this is a prayerful decision. This took almost two years of Christian Lutherans coming together to decide and, and even when those decisions were made, no, it wasn't a unanimous decision and and I Imagine in many churches it's not always unanimous but then we try to walk and step with, with the spirit.
Speaker 3:This is also a massive change. Right, it's complex, it's adaptive. It's an adaptive challenge, actually not a technical fix. The adaptive challenge we're trying to have as a church body that it having a president honestly grabbing for more authority, more control, being given that by a group of people To have a lot of oversight and organizational influence on Concordia's that are very complex and are not the Concordia's of 97 years ago, versus trying to release control and create a culture of the Senate of sending, releasing, empowering and mobilizing Disciple makers. So when you have those two different competing values, you're gonna experience loss and conflict and sabotage. So this type of governance shift Really hasn't happened, I think, in the life of the Concordia versus system. So just recognizing, delegate this the system isn't even that old and it's really the first time to kind of experience a sort of shift that we started to make based on the initial documents of 703.
Speaker 3:To me, it isn't the change that upsets people really, but it's the loss and the feeling that Concordia is like a wild child, going off to do whatever they please. But that's not the case. You. We are focused on the Bible, the Lutheran Confessions, living out them, those confessions, confessionally and missionally. Both words To all the people that are here on campus, trying our best to educate faculty and staff that are non-lutheran, which I believe all of our Concordia's have non Lutheran staff and faculty. You could call it cataclysm, you call it training, but giving them the tools and resources that they need and that is an area that I would say we do need to grow in and we are growing in.
Speaker 3:I'm sure in the past we've done different things, but starting this fall there will be a 10-week class for new hires With myself and then I'll bring in a guest to talk about things like the two kinds of righteousness To talk about lawn gospel and really seeing every, every worker most people Interact with some student at some point or their coworkers as an opportunity to live out our Lutheran identity.
Speaker 2:Man. You said a lot there, jake. Oh, thank you. No, it's good. It's good praying for the process, praying for more trust and love and and accountability, and then, where there is accountability, I pray into the future that it's clearer what it means to be Lutheran Church, Missouri Synod University.
Speaker 2:Where I am struggling right now is that appears to be negotiated using terms that are not clearly defined. And then if our definition around terms such as Lutheran Etho or Lutheran values, you know, if you don't have the appropriate definition, you could go off on a, on a tangent thinking. You have compromised one way, but this is all based on relationship. Unless it's written down on paper I've said this in different contexts unless the policy of what it means to be a Lutheran Church, missouri Synod Institution and or a church is clearly stated constitution, bylaws and then policy it's hard to hold a respective leader, leadership team, president, etc. Accountable for what exactly it looks like to maintain that Lutheran core identity. And that is kind of the.
Speaker 2:I've heard ethos. I've heard, I think, a lot of people say ethos is the most kind of open, you know, and then and then values is slightly more closed. But then the Lutheran identity, right, lutheran identity, this is what we need to kind of hold to. Well, who's defining those those terms? It's just an ongoing nebulous conversation and unless it's grounded in clear policy it we're gonna continue to have struggles amongst the Concordia's and I know that's what 704 Now is trying to do in connection to the CUS system at large CTX conversation Jake is now 703. If you ever hear that, that's just the Concordia Texas problem. And then 704 is the wider, you know love and trust and then accountability measures between all of the Concordia's and and synod. So I'm hoping for more clarity there because right now it's pretty nebulous anything more to say no, I don't think so.
Speaker 2:All right, cool. So I'm gonna skip that question. We just can't talk about it. We talked about that, jake. We may have talked about everything I want to talk about. Okay, maybe this one. Um, they're heading into convention and I you haven't been a delegate yet right to convention. You just heard about this that it's a. It's a different type of an experience. Some people say it's Soul faith crushing. I think that's overly dramatic. It is what it is. It's like if you've ever been a pastor with Complex board structure or an elder team that kind of gets sideways. It's just that I'm kind of steroids with all different types of Perspectives and it's it's fine. So I enjoy it and Not in a weird way. I enjoy seeing the church be the church across the different respective contexts that we find ourselves. The United lists, though as a list that's gone out for elected positions over the last. Um, gosh number of years 20, 30 years, I don't know how long 93.
Speaker 2:So yeah, about, okay, you're right on, so it goes out. I got the United lists and I'll I'll sit by. I bet some lay delegates or maybe a pastor delegate. So it goes. Pastor lay, pastor lay and I both last time I was there in Tampa, both of these guys, you know who in the world should we vote for for the board of regents at Concordia, texas?
Speaker 1:or wherever right, and they're pulling. Let's go.
Speaker 3:They're pulling out there a little.
Speaker 2:They were pulling out their little list. Well, a new list has come out and we're not as United Leadership Collective, we're not intimately connected with Conrogations Matter. I know they're a leadership team, but they've done some work to put together an Ephesians 4 list. If anybody wants to see that, just Google Conrogations Matter and they've got an Ephesians 4. What type of an equipping leader? That's what they're referring to Apostles, prophet, evangelist, preacher, teacher. All for what? Equipping the saints. So these leaders on this now separate list are all those who have shown the qualities of equipping, trusting, holding accountable. But yeah, I really want to see the church grow and not compromise theology. So what words of wisdom would you have for delegates as they vote for electing various leaders? Vote in resolutions for the life of the church? Anything final to add there?
Speaker 3:bud Complex yeah, I mean I speak from one with a little experience on the convention. As I just said, nor will I be there, but I will be watching from Concordia, texas, with some friends or, let's be honest, maybe at a bar in the afternoon, all right. But it's important, it's important work. And you know, when I first got the convention handbook I was kind of blown away Like we don't do a lot of things right, we, but we do do a lot of things right. We just came up with a 600 page convention handbook from all over the nation, right, and different groups of people came together in congregations and in circuits about what they cared about.
Speaker 3:And recently I went to a farm I want to tell you about. It's called the biggest little farm. This documentary you can watch. It's the real name, that's a documentary, but Apricot Farms in LA, near Simi Valley, and it's been about 12 years that it's been operational and all organic, no pesticides, and all of that composting. And when they got the property the soil was absolutely rock hard and they brought in a soil specialist and he said the key to having a great ecosystem here is diversity. We need 80, like how many, how many different types of trees, you think, and the gal that owned the new property said five, no, 15, no, 80, 80 types of trees and I saw that in action they have about 65 types of trees. You need to bring in different animals just to have this ecosystem very diverse. So, to cut to the point, a good soil needs a diversity of opinions, a diversity of thoughts, a diversity of stories.
Speaker 3:So, delegate, ask questions of different people. Look at both lists. As we just said, don't just hang out at this convention with people that you might find yourself gravitating toward, because it's safe. You can still vote the way that you came there to vote. But you might be surprised if you talk to some different people that have different perspectives, like hey, who are you voting for with this issue? I don't know. This person asked me or tell me more about them. What might I be missing? I could be wrong, right, jesus a lot of times helped people see things that they couldn't see. So just have that prayer Help me see something, lord, that I can't see. And for me, if I was voting, I would think about the Great Commandment and the Great Commission, who are the candidates that are going to help us in the Lord's church to focus on making disciples and loving God and loving others.
Speaker 2:That's fantastic. I think so. President Harrison, the primary, one of the primary responsibilities and it is a responsibility is putting respective people on lists to be president and on teams, maybe making up floor committees and or differing groups. I would ask him and those that sit with him do we have diverse voices, diverse perspectives about how the church is united in mission, remaining confessionally Lutheran with an evangelical Great Commission heart? Do we have the right voices at the table?
Speaker 2:And I know it's a hard thing to do, but in my humble opinion, we have had teams filled with a very narrow set of folks, with very narrow set of values as far as how the church does its work, and I don't like this sounds like label, but I think we overestimate the voice of those who are maybe in smaller churches and there are a lot of small churches there's nothing wrong with small churches and maybe those that are a little bit slower in terms of slow to start new things, maybe to reach those who. So it's way more about the personality than it is about the confession or sociology rather than it is about the confession, and I pray in his next term he takes that into consideration on the committees that he builds, because I could go off on the floor, committee floor, committee six, which is all about pastoral formation and seminaries and with my again humblest of opinion, I do not believe a diverse amount of people with diverse perspectives about what's needed for a cross cultural church in increasingly secular American context were represented on that team. And then you get what you get. You get throwing out a number of different resolutions, a half dozen on new ways to raise up local leaders, just out of hand, kind of discarded, and then a doubling down on residential only formation with a narrowing scope of what even the SMP can kind of do. So I 100% agree with you on inviting diverse perspectives to the table and I have to do that in the congregation.
Speaker 2:Jake, like we're walking through a number of different transitions right now. It would be unwise of me not to hear from Grammysh Schmitke who goes to there's no Grammysh Schmitke bit, I just used that that goes to the 730 traditional service as we look toward improving traditional worship. Like I got to listen to her.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you got to bring Grammysh Schmitke over the mountain.
Speaker 2:Hey, bring her over the mountain. Yeah, it's hard work maybe sometimes, bring Grammysh Schmitke over the mountain, but she just wants to be heard. Man, I don't think in our culture right now we've just created space to listen to diverse opinions, disagree agreeably, like hold my convictions, but hold only the gospel of Jesus Christ with a closed fist. Everything else is like negotiable. A lot of this stuff, jake, is like super audiophore oriented. Right, I've been reflecting on audiophore. Jesus didn't tell us how to organize, man, you know, the early church doesn't give us a blueprint on how to organize. You can't look at the Lutheran confessions and say that it gives us like a strict blueprint for how to do this thing. So we better have a fair amount of humility as we enter into these conversations. More on that, Jake.
Speaker 3:Once again, it's super complex as you look at pastoral formation. Coming from California last past week at Fuller Seminary in my doctorate program meeting with different leaders and different denominations, they're all struggling with pastoral formation. The pipelines are dry. It's very expensive for residential. Is it as effective as we think it is as efficient? It takes years to form someone. I'm still being formed, you're still being formed. So if finances is an issue, we have to figure out how to address that for sure.
Speaker 3:I think the bigger need that I haven't heard is a culture of unity around praying to the Lord of the Harvest for him to raise up workers.
Speaker 3:I love it, we both partner with him.
Speaker 3:But Harvest partnerships I mean I'll be in a meeting somewhere around the country and there's someone in the room from Harvest and at 1002 based on Luke 1002, they stopped the meeting and they say we're going to pray for this and so we started doing that at Cucordio over the summer, about five to six of us, just to say we're going to work the structures, we're going to work the system, we're going to be creative, we're going to prototype at a low cost, we're going to partner with people like ULC, we're going to figure out what we can, lord, but you got to really do the heavy lifting, and one of that is praying every day that he would raise those leaders up Because, with the Lord in charge, I mean he will find a way to make those people leave.
Speaker 3:He will find a way to have them leave. It just might not be with us, it just might not be in the system, and that would be a shame, because many people have left the system because it was not. It was not for them to go to this current past we have. Additionally in, my hope is just that we could tweak a few of the things that we do have to address that I mean, some of these programs are awesome, but how do we just make different routes and allow them to be all equally valued?
Speaker 2:Dude, this has been fun it has been it makes for making time. Yes, you're dear to me, dear to the wider body of Christ. We're praying for you. We're praying for all the leaders connected in Cordia, texas. We're praying to the Lord of the Harvest to raise up more workers and we're praying that the church would speak in unity of confession and mission as we head into the synodical convention here in July. Any final words, jake, for our listeners.
Speaker 3:Yeah, just loving, kindness to each other. Right, people would walk away and see our once-in-witness because right now they're looking at a lot of denominations that are happening right now and they're thinking I don't want to be a part of this church. This is not the church for me. Another book to recommend the patient ferment of the early church. The authors basically said that the early church moved fast in their love for people. Yes, but there was a lot of writing about being patient. It was just like in the day I'm being patient and doing what I can to serve the people around me. What I see in that is that, in their patience for the Lord to return, they weren't fearful. Hopefully, this convention isn't a bunch of people that are very fearful of not having their way, but a patient group of Christians coming together to love each other well, because that's what the world is watching. That's what the world will write about as well online.
Speaker 2:Truth, man. If we lead out of fear, perfect love of God casts out fear. If we lead out of anger, which is intimately connected to fear, yeah, we're going to be far from the Lord, but we pray for love, joy, peace, patience with ourselves and with those that we get to walk alongside within our beloved church body. It's a good day. Go and make it a great day. Please like, subscribe, comment. The lead time community is growing, so, on whatever platform you take it in, please share If you have comments that help us grow. If you've got a differing opinion, we always like to hear that as well. Jesus loves you, jake. Love you as a brother in Christ, man, proud of all the work that you're doing, and keep up the great work, see you very soon.
Speaker 3:You're welcome, Tim. Thanks.
Speaker 2:Bye, thanks, bud Bye.
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