Lead Time
Lead Time
Final Take-Aways on the 2023 LCMS Convention with Jerry Rau
Ever wonder what it takes to prepare for a large-scale church convention? Well, you're in for a treat as we sit down with lay delegate Jerry Rau. Jerry gives us an inside look at the intensity and extensive preparation that went into the LCMS convention. From the surprising amount of paperwork to the intricate workings of a church voting meeting involving 2000 individuals, we get a privileged peek into the world of church conventions.
We also delve into the deeper spiritual aspects as Jerry shares his awe at the advent of international pulpit fellowship and the unity it engenders within the church. Listen to his inspiring recounting of raw emotion and witnessing firsthand God’s work in the world. We discuss the LCMS structures ensuring protection against non-scriptural decisions and explore the notable event of the Lutheran Church in Japan being defellowshipped due to doctrinal concerns. We also chat about the potential of greater cross-cultural representation and leadership within the LCMS, and the key role both men and women play in non-pastoral authority positions.
Post-convention, Jerry opens up about his reflections and disappointments, particularly regarding the resolution for reconciliation with Concordia Texas. He emphasizes the need for mutual repentance and hopes for dialogue and reconciliation. The conversation isn’t all serious though, as we touch upon Jerry’s continued interest in pastoral ministry and his hopes for the LCMS in the coming years. Be ready for an hour of enlightenment, inspiration, and thought-provoking conversation!
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Leigh Time is a podcast of the Unite Leadership Collective, hosted by Tim Ollman and Jack Calliberg. The ULC envisages the future in which all congregations fully equip the priesthood of all the leavers through world-class leadership development at the local level. Leigh Time taps into biblical wisdom for practical solutions to today's burning issues. Each podcast confronts real-time struggles facing the local church in a post-Christian culture. Step into the action with the ULC at UniteLeadershiporg. This is Leigh Time.
Speaker 2:Happy day, tim Ollman, here with a bonus convention podcast today of Leigh Time. We pray that, as you're taking this in, as you're praying for our church both individually and in the Lutheran Church Missouri Synod collectively, that our church body would be known, one for the gospel of Jesus Christ, from our churches, proclaimed in our pulpits out into the community, and that we'd also be known for love and care and charity. And where we have to disagree, we disagree agreeably. But I'm with a very agreeable man that I got the privilege to sit next to for five straight days. His name is Jerry Rau.
Speaker 2:He was a lay delegate from the great state of Oklahoma and got to hear about his story. He is an information technology officer who gave of gosh not just the five days or so of convention but the preparation heading into convention. He's got a fascinating story of four years. His, a Benedictine monk, grew up Roman Catholic and now has a son. His name is Dalton, who is an intern in Galena, ohio, graduate of Concordia University in Nebraska, go Bulldogs on the Bulldog as well, serving as a preparing to serve as a DCE, a director of Christian education. So welcome, jerry, to Leigh Time. Excited to hang out with you here, brother, how you doing.
Speaker 3:Well, great, great, and thanks for having me on here. It's very exciting, it's very exciting stuff.
Speaker 2:The honor and joy is mine. So talk about the preparation. Let's get behind the curtain of what goes on at Synod and Convention every three years. A lot of time and money gets put into that endeavor, and so what was preparation like? Heading into the convention, Jerry?
Speaker 3:You know, I was really shocked at the amount of reading and paperwork that goes into. All this stuff, all the documents and all of the and you know, you look at this, these books, I mean we, I was, we were weighing the books after the convention and there was nine pounds of books and so that's a lot of reading.
Speaker 3:And so it is double-sided, so they were being efficient. But but I was really shocked at the amount of work that went into and thought went into all of the resolutions and all of the, the supporting documents for, for stuff. So you could really take that information and sort of read, read, read, read and and get to educate yourself to where you knew what you're looking at whenever you got there, which was very helpful, was very helpful.
Speaker 2:Very helpful and yet you still come and there's stuff you don't exactly know as we get into how the convention is is conducted. It really is a 2000 member with both voting and advisory delegates and those that are kind of taking it at 2000 person, church voters meeting where the business of the church gets done, man.
Speaker 2:So it's a it's a complex, unique experience for sure. So what were your expectations, kind of going into your first, first Senate convention? Some of us have done it a number of times. This was your first time representing your circuit and thank you for doing so. So what were those expectations, Jerry?
Speaker 3:Well, you know, I didn't really. I thought it was going to be a lot like a district convention, which I've been to too in Oklahoma and I'm always fascinated maybe it's part of my job is what they call scalability. And you know, when something gets bigger, it tests tech. Usually it gets exponentially more complex. And I was like, how are they going to keep 2000 people corralled and still get everything done, you know, cause it's hard enough at a district convention which is way smaller.
Speaker 3:And then you were joking about a voters meeting. I mean, as the chairperson of our church for eight years, there's been a few voters meetings that you know can get out of control really fast. And and I was like, how do you corral that many people and that many diverse opinions and recognize that some people need to talk and want to talk, and even if you know 90% of people in the room don't really want to hear what they have to say? But you'd have to respect that and and so balancing that, you know it was going to be a fascinating experience. I thought so, yeah, it was, yeah.
Speaker 2:It very much. It very much is, and I'm just thinking of myself, cause I've been to three and I have. I sat down next to you and I I said I'm one of those guys that may make you feel uncomfortable from time to time and just want to just want to caution you.
Speaker 2:There are some things that I've, you know, deeply passionate about in terms of formation and obviously care for the Concordia university system and and I know a number of those leaders. So sorry, I hope I didn't. Did I make you feel uncomfortable at any point, jerry.
Speaker 3:No, not at all. Not at all. It was actually very I'm glad I had somebody that I was sitting next to, that was passionate and was sort of forward thinking, because I think that's what we need, and I was very relieved that that somebody as dynamic as you and as open to you know different things was, was there so that I could, you know, lean over and say what is that all about? What is that all about? And that was the other thing. That was nice was to sit next to somebody who didn't mind me asking questions. Occasionally he's like what is this, what is this, what's going on here? And so you helped me out by by guiding me through and telling me you know at times what was going on, and that sort of thing.
Speaker 2:So yeah, there was a certain percentage of that. It was an honor buddy, it was so much fun. There was a certain percentage of the pastors that would see Tim Allman or a number of us that get on the get on the board and they kind of roll their eyes, you kind of feel that collective eye.
Speaker 2:You kind of feel that collective eye roll and it's a. It can be a little little intimidating as well. So the hardest part of the experience, what was that? What was that like for you? We'll talk some really good stuff, but also let's lean into some of the tougher stuff. What was that for you, jerry?
Speaker 3:The hardest. The hardest part was actually seeing there's a lot of inertia with the LCMS and that can be a blessing because, you know, we're seeing a lack of inertia in a lot of denominations and it's splitting them up, causing a huge amounts of problems on the theological side. You know every I don't I don't know of any thing on the top of my head where a church had division, serious division over a non theological problem. It was. It's always theological problems. That causes churches to to have that kind of split and because of our structure. I just don't see that happening to us.
Speaker 3:If you think about it, you know, if we had a resolution for something was going against Scripture that's just not going to ever get through that structure and that's really encouraging, that was really encouraging. But on the other side of it, if there's things that are not scriptural, that we're trying to bring up and different ways of looking things, the frustration is that you've got the same inertia to fight against, you know. So that was hard to watch to see. You know, there's some real practical things that we were talking about and you could just see it wasn't going to get anywhere. You could just see the some people would call it stubbornness. I think it's a little strong. It's just the way that it's built. It's built to not change in the structure. So anyway, that was interesting.
Speaker 2:I'd say mostly for better and occasionally for worse. To summarize what you're saying and I do agree.
Speaker 2:So could you get more specific, though, on some of those areas where there's like man, there's some practical opportunities for us to change and grow and try and risk, and, you know, and fail forward if you will build, measure, learn. This is a lot of things we talk about here. On lead time all the time, that abundance mindset let's take appropriate, balanced risk, moving forward. Where do you see some of that? Well, the inertia is moving this way and we're just not we're not a place that gets creative ideas to the four with great regularity. Say more specifically what you're thinking about.
Speaker 3:The main one was the seminaries and alternate paths. You know it's, there's a group that says this is the best way and that same group is feeding back on itself. You know, it's like I went to residential seminary and it was great for me. What about you, pastor? Yeah, I think I went to residential seminary, it was great for me, and so that just keeps feeding on itself, and then any other other way that may be just as good, because you know it doesn't.
Speaker 3:A recognition I didn't see of saying you know, this does have problems too. Right, this does have its own set of problems. Every, every system that we put in place is going to have its problems and its weaknesses and its strength, strong points, and not recognizing that, I think, is a danger. And so you bring up another alternate path, the inertia, to keep that from happening because of the fear and the lack of and the fear comes, you know, like lack of. Some people call it control. It's more just, oversight makes people nervous, and so getting other ways of getting pastors is is going to be our biggest challenge, and that was the. The most difficult thing to watch is to see how. You know how, how does anything ever get done as far as alternate ways of doing that.
Speaker 2:So you know, yeah, that's people that listen to lead time know that I am trying to keep the compulsion to just go off right now and start on a little bit of my my formation rant.
Speaker 2:I'm not going to do that. What I would say, from a structured perspective that could help us, is the pastoral formation committee is not, it's a, it's a group of people that are are both of our seminary presidents and Kevin Robeson and James Bannack, who are connected to to Synod, incorporated, right, maybe something helpful for that that committee would be to invite, you know, maybe two, four active pastors who have some experience, and maybe even those, those pastors that are going to be talking about this consistently, could be voted on, could be, could be nominated and elected to be on that respective committee. You kind of look at the federal government, right, and you've got some, some committee leaders, obviously in the Senate and the House etc. That are, that are elected, and then other people who are in the infrastructure of the government, who are, who are appointed, and that's where the rub can kind of be.
Speaker 2:I think if you get too far away from the, the grassroots of what is actually happening in our urban, suburban and rural centers, you may not have the the pulse of, of the need. Where is God moving? Right, because it's all about. It's all about the Holy Spirit at work. Where are the lay leaders being being raised up?
Speaker 2:You know, tell me some story, because really, at the end of the day, for us, jerry, it's about the stories of the Bible occasional co vocational leaders who are already in our context and in many, many church context, who are not going to go down any of the past for a variety of different reasons, that that, so we don't have the inertia, keeps us from, from testing things, and no, again, you know this, and no path can be changed, nor really robust tests run outside of Senate and convention. So what I'm hopeful about on on that topic is that I think it was resolution to the show for right that they're going to assess and to analyze, assess and analyze existing routes like the competence based theological education, luther house, etc. And we're praying for that LCMS stamp to come upon that, come upon that program Greatest away from that we will table that. That's one, one point of business, but there's so many other beautiful, beautiful things that took place. Unexpected joy about the convention, jerry.
Speaker 3:The international pulpit fellowship resolutions was absolutely incredible. I had no idea. Well, I'd read a little bit about it, but I had no idea the extent of all of that. And Ukraine, south Sudan, uganda, those I think there was a few others that we voted on to go into fellowship with them and I thought those were the most moving parts of the convention as far as just seeing the good things are happening, that God is working in the world, despite all of the barriers that we have. And you know the whole helmet, I don't know if you remember the helmet from the.
Speaker 3:Ukrainian president, Bishop yeah, the bishop, yeah, that was. You know, that was neat. That was really really cool to see God working that way in our church around the world, so that was very encouraging yeah, and the influence that we get to have connected that to the persecuted church international right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we think we have our problems here in terms of religious freedom. You know, we can talk about that for sure. It's nothing like in many places. So praise be to God. That was so, so encouraging and those church bodies, they are well vetted right. I mean, it's been a long time, a long time relationship and one of the one of the sadder points connected to that was the uncoupling or the defellow shipping. Is that?
Speaker 2:a word I don't know With the Lutheran church in Japan over doctrinal concerns. That was, that was a bummer. But yeah, more more certainly coming in to alternate public fellowship than than leaving, for sure, and that's very encouraging and what else along those lines.
Speaker 3:Just again, and it's kind of like with Japan the structures that we have in place in the LCMS just will not let us yield on non-scriptural things. And that's a very you know, in our little town here in Oklahoma, you know we, we know friends who are in some of the denominations that are just just getting ripped apart right now and it's all over non-scriptural things and people are saying I don't want to do this and you know this is not right and it's just a joy to see that. I just can't see that happening to the LCMS, no To where we would have our Synod, you know, adhere to something that's not scriptural, and then we would have the same problem. So that's, that's very encouraging.
Speaker 2:It's very encouraging, you know we need to, whatever spectrum, mission, confession, etc. Which are one and the same. I don't like that dichotomy. But wherever you are in, whatever context, right, we should have contextual hospitality and then robust unity around around the fact that we're not arguing around the need for a mom and a dad to raise kids and the fear and love of the Lord right.
Speaker 2:Those arguments are so, so pervasive and that was one of the things that was really encouraging for me is to see any kind of resolution that relates to culture and and scripture and the currents of culture. Now, the way we talk about maybe some of those issues we can, we can talk about, you know, are we kind and charitable toward those who have different worldviews? And I think I think we definitely are. Churches, I think, by and large, are places that love to welcome. You know all of y'all here and we'll, we'll, bring law and gospel to you on your journey toward from justification to the sanctified life connected to the spirit and the never changing word of God. So I think we walk that tension very, very well and I agree with you that none of those resolutions will.
Speaker 2:Will see, we'll see the light of day for sure, and yet there's some other kind of social, the race conversation, right, and how our church body becomes reflective of these are all really good conversations that have reflective of our diverse context, right, how do we become more cross cultural? How do we raise up cross cultural leaders? All of those things are very, very good for us to lovingly debate and discuss as our church evolves and becomes more like our respective communities, which we're going to have to do from a demographic perspective, moving into the future. Anything, anything more to add there?
Speaker 3:Just one. One other kind of thing that's a cultural thing is I was surprised how easily and readily people would vote women or men into board positions. You know some of the gender, the old, old school gender stuff, with women you know, not not being in authority was. It was very encouraging to see that people did not have a problem with that on those boards since it wasn't a pastor type position, right so it was. There was no problem with with that and that was much more accepting than I thought it would be.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there was a. There was also a group that wanted us to kind of re-debate women's suffrage.
Speaker 3:Right, I saw those three declined overtures, right, yes, they were declined over, yeah, and so that's still there. And and it was encouraging to see that, you know, the vast majority of people were not having any problem with with a non-pastoral authority job type job for for a woman, so that was good I mean both men and women in those roles?
Speaker 2:absolutely yes. So let's talk about it and we need.
Speaker 3:We need both sides. We need both sides. And whether it's looking at any of the issues, you always want somebody on the other side who you don't like and don't agree with, right, yeah, yeah, so we need both. We need both to get the best solutions.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, and you got to hear her and we've got a lot of scriptural evidences for for that, Lydia and, yes, Timothy's. You know mom and grandma obviously bending the ear of Saint Paul, Unison Lois, right, or is that? No, not Unison Lois. I'm drawing a blank on their names. I should be able to pull it out of my head. Do you remember Tim's mom and?
Speaker 3:grandma. No, I don't, no, I don't, I remember them, I don't remember my own grandma's name. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:But anyway, yeah, the role of women, while not discounting the headship of men within our church.
Speaker 2:Obviously within our homes, that's definitely definitely a tension that we walk and should continue to talk about. So let's talk Concordia, texas. That definitely got the most attention. What were your thoughts considering Because there's so much that went on, both in the CUS conversation connecting the Board of Regents, as well as then the Concordia Texas conversation and I've been on kind of the inside of that, knowing a lot of the leaders on both sides, and so just your first time there walking through that such a complex issue, what were your thoughts given?
Speaker 3:the Concordia.
Speaker 2:Texas situation.
Speaker 3:Yeah, very complex and I didn't have much information from the Austin side. You know, you only hear. You got to hear both sides of the story and so I really. That's why I was excited when the delegates asked to hear from the president directly on the floor. So that was very good to hear the support. But you know, my impression of that was that for the first God, that was what an hour and a half we did, that I think we ended up talking about Austin. I would say probably the first half of it.
Speaker 3:There was a huge amount of support for trying to do something to make it easier for them to not leave, and my impression was, once he spoke and didn't recognize the need for the Senate to at least verify that they're doing things correctly. You know, if you want to be Lutheran, you have to hear to some principles, right? That's when I saw the support for that son of evaporated. This was my impression. So that was disappointing because I think the resolution that we passed. You know it's like I've told people one year having a fight with somebody, the first thing, you know, the first step is not to point out that they're sinning, even if they are right, and so that is not helpful. The reconciliation so I was disappointed in that because I think it made it a lot harder to get them to come to stay with us and not leave like we're gonna do, which I think is gonna cause a lot of other problems too.
Speaker 2:So we talk a lot about intent and impact and, regardless of the intent from Senate leadership, the impact upon, because we can put the best construction on their intent in terms of connecting. But the ultimate impact was that the CTX leadership did not feel heard and cared for. A number of the staff didn't feel heard and cared for. So in so far as and this is not just President Harrison, this is others in so far as they could have taken responsibility for a contribution to some sort of you know, riff in the relationship, and I don't, who cares what the percentage is. Is it 90, 10? I don't know what it is, but we, everybody knows there's kind of mutual responsibility for any kind of relationship being torn apart and it was unfortunate that the resolution to seek reconciliation rather than just kind of point the finger at CTX needs to repent. There needs to be mutual repentance.
Speaker 2:Eventually, president Harrison did say there was a moment right after the CTX leadership spoke where I thought President Harrison or someone from Senate Incorporated could have basically said what ended up being said a couple days later About the relationship. That would have gone a long way in that moment. Anything to add to that moment? Yeah, jerry.
Speaker 3:Well, I was just gonna say I remember at the very end, and I think it was President Harrison that sort of apologized the way the president of Texas did during the resolution. But it was at the end and I don't know if you remember, but you and I just turned to each other and looked and went. I can't believe that just happened. Why didn't that happen two days ago? Right, would have helped a lot. Not to blame him all the way, I don't wanna do that, but yeah, I think that there was. It was very one side. I felt very one sided. Yeah, I felt very one sided. This is something you're doing wrong and we didn't do anything wrong, and that's not a way to reconcile. So I was disappointed in the way it ended up.
Speaker 2:Yep, yep, and we're praying that Concordia Texas connects with the board. I don't know if you saw there was an email that went out a week or so ago that said that Senate leadership is going to be re-engaging the NCUS system, is gonna be re-engaging Concordia Texas, and so we pray for those conversations of reconciliation and that mutual contribution would be expressed to the RIF and that we would put the best construction on everything. We would recognize unique contexts while not compromising doctrine at all. That's a dance that I pray gets conducted here very, very soon. So what parts of the convention do you think because we do this thing, we gather for five days and then we all go back to where ministry really happens, at the grass roots, you know, in the local context, the circuit congregations working together what parts of convention directly impacted the work do you feel, as a lay leader of the local congregation, you know this one didn't doesn't really have any immediate impact for us.
Speaker 3:There wasn't anything that was addressed, and part of it the reason why is our local congregation. All of the students I know of that have gone to college, have gone to Seward. So the Austin thing didn't really. You know, if we'd had somebody at Austin that would have impacted us, we'd had somebody thinking that going to Austin would have impacted us, but all of ours are going to Seward, so that part didn't really affect us. Everyone by and large would have agreed with any of the resolutions that were passed. So I think the impact is going to be the more of the long term with the seminary stuff. And you know, if we ever lose our pastor, we're going to be able to get another one, that kind of stuff. Or if our pastor is going, what can we do to fill in for him and who can do that? And is there, can we be a little more, you know, proactive about what ways people can fill in stuff like that? So that that is the immediate thing is that we're still going to be somewhat hamstrung or whatever for that.
Speaker 2:But it's a little bit longer term. Yeah, it is a longer term thing. You kind of told me a couple of three days into our time together that there was a time in a season that you thought about pastoral ministry.
Speaker 3:Is that?
Speaker 2:is the Lord. Still have that in the back of your mind somewhere. What are your thoughts?
Speaker 3:Oh, you know, I don't know, Maybe I'm being too, maybe I'm being too Jonah about it, I don't know, but it's it's. The process is so difficult and I really tried to figure out a way to back. When I looked at it, there was a pro, a program called TE Theological Education by Extension and it was a programs where you took, and I took, about 30 hours of coursework. Their college coursework went around to different parishes in Oklahoma and pastors taught them and that was a theology class. There was a preaching class, there was a ministry class, there was a just a whole bunch of them history class.
Speaker 2:This was the LCMS right. This was LCMS.
Speaker 3:And it was approved. So, and a lot of the guys that were there was some of my teachers right At the at this thing, so, and then the idea was do that, and then you could just have this, this certification, and it helped you like Tate Shinsan Day School, just so. You know a little bit, a little bit more about backgrounds, to put that, and I wanted to jump into what I think was called Delto back then and the. The headwinds for that were kind of difficult. I think our church was a little too big to support that. I think there was one one rule on it you had to be a certain size church.
Speaker 3:So then I went over to the Kansas district, because we live in Oklahoma, in Bartlesville, which is real close to the Kansas line, and there was a little church there that would have supported me. And I thought, you know, I feel like I'm just trying to go around all these rules on it. Maybe this is just not the right thing to do right now. So I sort of put it on the back burner and now I feel like, gosh, I'm 60 years old, you know, should I do how many years they're going to get out of me Right? So so I don't know. You know we'll see, but right now I feel really happy serving as a layperson in Sunday school and you know different boards I've been in on our church, so at this point I'm sort of waiting to see what happens, who knows.
Speaker 2:So on the one hand, I'm just very, very grateful that there were programs like the T, that the program that was in Oklahoma that allowed you to do, to do what was basically sounds like deacon training license-lay deacon training in our context.
Speaker 3:You've got a yeah, yeah, that would be yeah.
Speaker 2:Kind of like that and the and the fact that what what then is is discouraging is that there's a lack of recognition that that training can lead toward, is, is a part of the formation journey, leading toward maybe a master, divinity or a Delta type of commissioned, certified, recognized role for, for ordination moving forward, and that the red tape would have stopped you. Yeah, that's, that's sad, that's sad. So I hope, I hope that there's an opening, a softening to recognize Jerry Rouse moving forward and and not just in the past, jerry, but while we have air in our lungs, the mission of Jesus is before us. And if the church were ever to say hey, jerry, I see in you we talk a lot about, I see in you conversations, I see in you someone that should dust off that theological mind and let's, let's get right back after it, because you have, you have a lot to offer, offer the, the body of Christ. So, coming down the home stretch here, this has been so much fun. I'm, I'm grateful for you. Three biggest takeaways from the convention, jerry.
Speaker 3:Three biggest takeaways Um, let's see, um, just again. The LCMS is, is a structure, is built not to change. That has positives and negatives to it, but mostly positives. I think, um, uh, let's see, uh, the uh, yeah, it's just the, the whole, the whole structure.
Speaker 3:Um, it was very uh, someone I don't want to be negative it's almost alarming, uh, that that authority was so vested in one, one sort of you know, remember, uh, we were looking at resolutions and I was like man, these four committees are really powerful as far as the uh, you know their authority. And how do you get on one of those? Cause I'm like, you know, you want to make change. That's where you got to go right. And you're like, well, you got to get appointed no-transcript. That's not normally what we do with checks and balances in an institution, to encourage alternate views. So that was, that was a big takeaway Again. The other takeaway is that the LCMS is alive and well in the world, which is really encouraging. The LCMS is going to stay, you know, only Scripture, only Christ, only only faith. There is not a lot of deviation from the Catechisms, and that's wonderful because we need that. And so slows the two, the two, at least the two biggest ones that I took away.
Speaker 2:And last question biggest hopes for the LCMS in the next three years between our Senate conventions. What are you praying for?
Speaker 3:Continue unity on the important things, the theological things. Those are the important things. I hope that the seminary boards or whatever can come up with a better way or another way to train more pastors, because we're going to need them badly in the next 10 years. And just the way that it was, that the wrapper flame. That is encouraging to see, something that you normally would think LCMS is like this German person sitting in you know and you know, not saying anything, and then you've got somebody like that that was so dynamic so and very totally out of the well yard. My first thought was that sounds like a LCMS wrappers, like an oxymoron. What is that all about?
Speaker 2:Fantastic one.
Speaker 3:It was. It really was, it really was. We had a joke in our Sunday school class I was teaching. There's another guy who we did a study and there was this Christian gamer that was converting people with by talking to them, anyways, and it's feel like Christian gamer, is that? You know they? I was like you think you had a hard time with that, listen to this. And I told him about this flame guy. So it was interesting. It's very helpful to see the reach that the LCMS can actually have outside of what we think of as a stereotypical LCMS person.
Speaker 2:So it's all because our theology is biblical. I was talking with a friend and I'm like what makes Lutheran theology unique? It's because it's just rooted in the never changing word of God. You know, good Lutheran theology is just good biblical theology and that that should reach into every culture group, every subculture group, people that have different hobbies, like like rapping.
Speaker 2:So one of the funniest moments for me of the convention is you and I sat at the corner where everybody who was going to the stage had to had to pass right and we were talking past row formation. I think it was the Tuesday or Wednesday or something like that and flame is doing his thing up there and telling his story, you know, dropping some rhymes, it was, it was super cool and he's coming off the stage and because I have this podcast, I'm like, oh man, could I? I got to introduce myself to flame, you know, and see if he'd be on my podcast. But then the four committee six is going to the stage and I got my little clicker in my hand and stuff and it timed out perfectly for me to wait in line to talk to flame and then, almost like 30 seconds after interacting with flame, speaking into six dash, oh, four, I got to get up to talk about six dash oh four.
Speaker 3:That's yours yeah.
Speaker 2:And I got to get it in line to talk to flame because we've been corresponding and he's going to be a guest on lead time here, jerry, in a couple of weeks.
Speaker 3:I can't wait. I want to watch it for that one. That'll be a good one. That'll be a real good one Super fun. So this has been awesome.
Speaker 2:Jerry.
Speaker 2:Thank you for being a new friend, an amazing churchman and for giving of yourself. You know I mean it's 50% lay voice at sending convention and or district conventions. We need the lay voice, those who are in a variety of different vocations, those pastors we get in our echo chambers all the time and think pretty narrow. But you and all of the lay delegates provide such a diverse experience and thank you for your the time, the wisdom that you provide, not just at sending convention but obviously, most importantly, in your local congregation. Be praying for you and I pray, man. It'd be cool if in three years again, we both got a. I don't think the dice will roll that way, but I just want you to know I highly respect you and enjoyed, enjoyed my time with you.
Speaker 1:So this is lead time sharing is caring.
Speaker 2:Please like, subscribe comment wherever it is that you're taking this in. And last last word, jerry, from you Go ahead buddy, just I really appreciate.
Speaker 3:I really appreciate it. I'll let you did there at the at the convention. For me, as far as explaining things and just your passion, it's just so cool. I told my wife I want to go to Phoenix, this, this church, and just see what this is all about, because I got a feeling it's pretty cool.
Speaker 2:So yeah, it's all, jesus man, it's all joy because it's all.
Speaker 1:It's all Jesus.
Speaker 2:So please like, subscribe, comment wherever it is. You're taking this in and we'll be back next week with another fresh episode of lead time. Thanks so much, jerry. Thank you.
Speaker 1:You've been listening to lead time, a podcast of the Unite Leadership Collector. The ULC's mission is to collaborate with the local church to discover, develop and deploy leaders through biblical Lutheran doctrine and innovative methods to partner with us in this gospel message. Subscribe to our channel, then go to theuniteletorshiporg to create your free login for exclusive material and resources and then to explore ways in which you can sponsor an episode. Thanks for listening and stay tuned for next week's episode.