Lead Time
Lead Time
Unity, Innovation and Love - Vision for the LCMS with Reverend Tom Eggebrecht
Imagine a church culture rooted in trust and love, where fear and division are things of the past. It sounds beautiful, doesn't it? That's the vision Reverend Tom Eggebrecht, a senior vice president of Ministry Solutions at the Lutheran Church Extension Fund, shared with us in our latest conversation. Reverend Tom's insights on leadership and culture within the Lutheran Church are a breath of fresh air, shedding light on the importance of listening, understanding, and considering others' perspectives. His experience at LCEF and the concepts from his new book, "Fully and Creatively Alive", offer practical strategies for fostering unity and innovation.
However, we're aware that achieving such a culture is no easy task. In our chat, we touched on the challenges faced within the Lutheran Church of Missouri Synod, especially the prevalent fear and division. We can be so consumed by fear that it acts as a barrier to love and acceptance. Reverend Tom pointed out the importance of humility, confession, sacrifice, and service to overcome this barrier. It's only when we free ourselves from self-deception that we can foster a culture of trust and love.
Our conversation wasn't all problems, though. We also discussed the cultural impact and hope within the LCMS, guided by Reverend Tom's journey towards a missional mindset and abundance mentality. We heard uplifting stories of congregations across the US, coming together with humility and mission at their core. As we look towards the future of LCMS, we are hopeful. The unity, innovation, and mission-driven focus of the church shine brightly, reminding us of the power of trust and community. Join us as we navigate these complex issues and strive toward a more united and loving church culture.
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Leigh Time is a podcast of the Unite Leadership Collective, hosted by Tim Ollman and Jack Calliberg. The ULC envisions the future in which all congregations fully equip the priesthood of all the believers through world-class leadership development at the local level. Leigh Time taps into biblical wisdom for practical solutions to today's burning issues. Each podcast confronts real-time struggles facing the local church in a post-Christian culture. Step into the action with the ULC at UniteLeadershiporg. This is Leigh Time.
Speaker 2:Welcome to Leigh Time Tim Ollman here. Jack Calliberg, he's a little under the weather today, so it's just me and my friend, reverend Tom Eggebrecht. Now let me tell you about this man and one. I was referred to him by Bart Day, but I knew, tom. I've experienced life with you, I've watched your ministry from afar and now we just are reconnecting.
Speaker 2:Tom is a senior vice president of ministry solutions at the Lutheran Church Extension Fund. He served congregations in North Carolina All different contexts, from rural to urban and suburban, from North Carolina, virginia, wisconsin and then Florida. He's also served as an adjunct professor of theology at Concordia University, wisconsin planner and facilitator for. Thank you for serving in this way for LCMS Youth Gatherings, one of the most spectacular things our church body does every three years or so. It's chaplain for Castleberry, florida Police Department. Thank you for serving in that way.
Speaker 2:He also is a writer, blogger on topics of creativity, ministry, culture and the church. His writing has been published in Portals of Prayer, the Lutheran Witness, creative Communications for the Parish and in various other church related publications. He recently wrote and released this book. We can talk about this. I love this title Fully and Creatively Alive how to Live a More Joyfully Filled, fulfilling Life and joy is the fuel for the brain, fuel for creativity. We're gonna talk about that today. Tom is also married to Tammy, live in Orlando, florida. They have two adult children, six grandchildren. He enjoys walking, reading the Milwaukee Brewers not gonna hold that against you, green Bay Packers Go Pack and the Sunshine and being a Granddad. So thanks so much, tom, for hanging out with me today. What a joy brother, how you doing.
Speaker 3:I'm doing great, it's great to be here, and I wanna thank you for all that you do. I watch you from afar and love what you're doing out there.
Speaker 2:Oh, praise Jesus, it's all about him and I just say got a lot to learn and I might as well invite other people to learn right along with me. So I can't wait to do so today with you. Tell a little bit of your ministry story and how you came into the LCMS, and also a little bit of more depth on what your role is currently with LCEF.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I guess I'm what you call a product of the system, a true product of the system. The only time I ever went to public school was kindergarten. So my dad was a professor and a guy at Concordia University, milwaukee, in then Wisconsin, for my entire life practically. He was the economic dean there for a number of years. So my mom and dad raised me in the church.
Speaker 3:I was baptized at a week or two old and then went to Lutheran grade school, lutheran high school, milwaukee, lutheran high school in Milwaukee shout out Red Nights and then graduated from Concordia University, wisconsin.
Speaker 3:I actually spent my first year at the old campus in downtown Milwaukee and then between my freshman and sophomore year, we moved out to Mequon.
Speaker 3:I actually helped with that move, graduated from there, took a year off, actually took a year off between high school and college and between college and seminary, and then ended up at Concordia Seminary, st Louis, all the way through.
Speaker 3:And so then, as you said a little while ago, served congregations for 28 years in North Carolina, northern Virginia, milwaukee, wisconsin, and then in the Orlando Florida area, and then, just about four years ago right now, received the call to be vice president of Ministry Solutions, that Lutheran Church Extension Fund, which is where I had the opportunity to cover most of the Eastern United States, helping congregations with what we call ministry clarity, which is like strategic planning for a congregation, as well as capital campaigns, what we call ministry expansion campaigns, doing some stewardship work, working a lot with pastors, which I really love to do, really have a heart for encouraging pastors.
Speaker 3:You know I know what the role is like after having done it for 28 years, and it's just on my heart to really provide encouragement for the people who are on the front lines. And then earlier this summer, july 1st, I've received a promotion to be senior vice president of Ministry Solutions at LCEF, which means that I now manage the entire department. So we cover the entire United States in terms of all the things that I just talked about. I also oversee Grace Place Ministries, which LCEF just acquired not too long ago about a year, year and a half ago. And then we also work with RSOs and agencies and do a lot of work with them, and we have an incredible support staff in St Louis that helps us out doing all this stuff. So it's been a great ride.
Speaker 2:Tom you're kind of a big deal. Kind of a big deal there, Tom. I didn't know who I was talking to today.
Speaker 2:You get oversteel. No, no, no, no. This is fantastic. I love your humility and your passion for the local church. So let's talk leadership. This is a leadership podcast, and culture is such a big it's kind of a buzzword. But, man, if there isn't a culture of trust and love and care, you can have the greatest dreams you can possibly imagine, but if you don't have that the trust of the people it's just you're just not gonna go very fast or very far. So give us three primary strategies for helping us in the Lutheran Church of Missouri Synod unite in our confession of faith, especially as we and trust is the fuel for this, this missional movement in our confession of faith especially as we reach a post-Christian culture.
Speaker 2:I, as a right post-Christian, I had a great chat with a brother a week or two ago and I can't remember actually which one it was. The listeners will be able to tag this. But he started talking about it's not necessarily post-Christian, because that assumes that a lot of people even have a Christian worldview, or the remnants of it In some respects. He says it's actually pre-Pagan because of the rise of the nuns, so you can say pre-Pagan or post-Christian, I guess. And the cultural changes in the United States of America have left many of us within the church, especially in your generation, kind of with cultural whiplash how quickly things have changed. So we need a united Lutheran Church of Missouri Synod, now more than ever, to clearly confess Christ and Him crucified and walk together in love. So I look forward to hearing your thoughts there, brother.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean, it's so true. I've had lots of opportunity now over the past four years that I've been with LCEF to work with congregations mostly all over the Eastern United States and to really see up close and personal how congregations are dealing with this post-Christian, pre-Pagan culture and what that's meaning in local situations. It's been a great ride to be able to do this. In a way, it's a unique role that we have that we get to see churches in all different contexts. We get to see churches that have different approaches to ministry. Some are being very effective, some are struggling with being effective. We get to see churches that are all across the spectrum of the Missouri Synod. And so some of the observations that I've kind of taken in and thought about and, as I was thinking about our discussion here today, one of the things that I think is most important is for us to really come out of our enclaves, whatever that enclave might be.
Speaker 3:I think we often see that there are two main camps that kind of are separated in the Lutheran Church of Missouri Synod, but I think there are more than that. I think there are lots of different, smaller enclaves in our church. But now is the time and I really applaud you for doing this and for being a leader in all this. Now is the time for us to come out of those enclaves and really just talk to each other, to listen to each other. It's amazing to me when, instead of just taking potshots through social media or through podcasts or whatever it might be, when we get people in the same room and actually talk to each other and listen to each other, we're much closer together than I think anybody actually realizes and there's so much common ground and so much that we can do together when we actually sit down face to face, talk to each other and listen to each other. And I think going right along that with that is the fact that I think we all, on any side, whatever side it might be in our church, is to just stop the accusations.
Speaker 3:A lot of times those accusations are false. A lot of times they're built on caricatures. A lot of times they're built on false information or whatever it might be. And again it goes back to having real face to face discussions, listening to each other and hearing really what it is that we have to say and really listening to it.
Speaker 3:And then also, and then finally, I think really sometimes I think about the Lutheran Church of Missouri Synod these days as kind of similar to sort of the old West, the land grab in the old West, where people were able to go out to Oklahoma or wherever it was in the West and the government would say you can have this property. And people just stood there on the line and everybody ran to the piece of property they wanted, grabbed it and held on to it for dear life. And sometimes that feels like what it's like for us today in the LCMS we grab our territory, stick with it and won't yield an inch of it, won't listen to what others have to say and just want to hold on to our thoughts, our ideas and not really listen to or open up to or consider the possibilities of what other people might have to say, what they might have to share, suggestions for what they might have to do. And this comes, I think, on all sides of the equation.
Speaker 2:Oh, tom dude, we're brothers from another mother for sure, because we share the same prayer, and from time to time I can get frustrated. Oh, chapel, starting here, if you hear the bells, great.
Speaker 2:Can't come into the house of the Lord to hear about the love of Jesus, little kid. So I have been curious as to why. Let's go back to your first one. Come out of the enclaves and talk to each other, where the fear lies, in having polite, kind, clear discussions around theology and culture. Today we're congregational in our polity, okay, but yet often we function based in an episcopal kind of function, hierarchy driven function, where there's a fear of and I'm not just talking, president Harrison there's a fear of someone somewhere saying something about me that's negative. And so, instead of risking the relationship to go on to a podcast or even to go out to lunch at a convention with someone who doesn't share all of your views, that comes from the pit of hell man, that comes from Satan, who seeks to steal, kill and destroy and divide us from one another. And I'm not going to say any names, but I have had a number of people, tom, sign up to say, oh yeah, that's good.
Speaker 2:And then they start to root around and hear certain things which are very much half truths, if true at all, about what the ULC is. Well, they're a liberal organization, they partner with the ELCA. None of those things are true. And so then they say. I don't know if I can take the relational risk of talking to Tim or any of these ULC people because they're liberal or whatever. I don't.
Speaker 2:That's just not good Lutheran theology. We should enter into a relational tension. We recognize our tension with God. We recognize we have no right to be in the same room with God and yet he invites us in and gives us a brand new baptismal identity. And we should enter into a relationship with people who are in different contexts, seeking to be faithful to share the gospel of Jesus Christ. This is what you see in your work with LCEF contextual hospitality. But for some reason and I think it's a lot of social media, a lot of the it can spiral out of control quick. You can get a label, a caricature, very, very quick, and so let me just keep my head down, while the gospel of Jesus Christ can just get snuffed out. It's really insidious how the evil one is working today. And I mean, if you want to double down on your first point, obviously you ping something in me there. Tom, I'd like to thank you for bringing that up, man.
Speaker 3:Well, I mean, I you hit the nail on the head. I think it really boils down to fear, all different kinds of fear. Fear of you know, maybe fear of learning something new, or maybe fear of learning that I'm wrong, you know. Or or maybe the fear of the hierarchy, or the supposed hierarchy that there might be, you know, consequences for our something, that we say or our actions or whatever you know, and those fears just keep us apart. And you know, as you said, satan loves that, he loves to drive those wedges between us, and fear is the greatest wedge of all in the middle of all that, and it's all different kinds of fear, rather than the pursuit of love and acceptance and forgiveness, you know, that really needs to be at the forefront.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I. All of life is confession and absolution. Tom Right, yeah. I think that Luther said a fair amount and the church last 2000 years has said that when we deny our sin, deny our contribution to whatever the struggle is, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not within us. And when we? One of my favorite leadership books, leadership and self deception, have you read?
Speaker 3:leadership and self deception, oh my goodness, it's by the Arbinger group.
Speaker 2:It's not a theological work per se, but they use this metaphor of in the box or out of the box. And when we fail to do or say what we know we should do or say, we actually deceive ourselves and we put ourselves in the box and we set ourselves against the other person. So what brings you out of the proverbial self deceived box? It is humility, it's confession, it's sacrifice, it's service, it's care for the other. This is the way of the cross putting my needs, my wants, my desires below yours or at least in the same level as yours. That is not something we're doing culturally in the LCMS that well, and I think in your sphere of influence, the LCF, and mine with the ULC, we're seeking to play a small part toward that. I really believe Holy Spirit inspired unity, focused end, and it really comes down to yielding territory, not whole.
Speaker 2:I like the metaphor right of an open hand or closed fist. What are we holding with a closed fist? Better yet, who's holding us with a closed fist? It's God and His love. And then everything else is just like man. It's adventure, it's wonder, it's awe. I have a few ideas, but I'm going to hold them with an open hand, and I'd love to hear how you add to that Anything more to say there, because this is all culture stuff that we're praying. The LCMS gets shaped after time. Any closing comments on the LCMS and culture?
Speaker 3:I mean, I just think we in the LCMS we have the theology that can really impact the culture.
Speaker 3:We were I was at a little event yesterday here.
Speaker 3:We were doing some work here with LCEF, with some entrepreneurial people here in the Orlando area, and we were talking about culture and the whole idea that people are so moving, are moving away from the church in droves and, as you started the whole podcast with some of it, a lot of it, all of it maybe, boils down to trust. And if we can regain that trust in some way, shape or form not only within the church, first and foremost, when, if and when we do that and then we show that we trust one another and then we begin to build trust in our communities and have a very real impact on our community, then instead of us being influenced by the culture, we can begin to re-influence the culture again, and it's going to be an uphill climb, there's no doubt about it. This culture is way past being a church culture and if there's any way that we can influence our communities one person at a time, one church at a time, one community at a time then there's going to be a real impact.
Speaker 2:That's so good. So I'd like to go deeper into your story. How did you develop this kind of abundance mindset God you're at work and this humility and, at the same time, this strong sense of self and being able to speak for self and invite other people to grow as a child of God, as you're growing too? How did you develop that sort of missional mindset as you were growing up in the LCMS and even in your ministry context?
Speaker 3:God has given me incredible experiences over the course of my life. As I said earlier, I was born and raised in the church very faithful Christian, loving parents who saw to it that you know, that I was raised in the faith and that I was able to. They made sacrifices so that I could go to Lutheran schools all the way through, and that is a gift that I do not ever take for granted. One of the greatest gifts I've ever received in my life was my Christian education that I received in Lutheran schools and the teachers that impacted and influenced me all the way from, you know, first grade all the way through seminary just incredible, incredible people, influencers, children of God who taught me in so many incredible ways. And then, seeing my way into ministry itself, as you talked about earlier, have had very vastly different experiences in different types of parish ministry all the way from rural North Carolina to the metropolis of Washington DC area in northern Virginia and then very urban ministry along with a 4K through 12th grade school in Milwaukee and then down here in suburban Orlando, florida. That's given me a real chance to see all different kinds of people in all different kinds of settings who both need the love of Jesus and his forgiveness and who, in turn, show and share the love of Jesus and his forgiveness with people in their communities. I've been privileged to, you know, take a front row seat to seeing that in the lives of a lot of lay people that I've been privileged to serve. And then a great opportunity to. For about 13 years I was able to teach a theology class, a semester basically at Concordia, wisconsin, and every time I set foot on that campus I could just feel the energy. It was just such an incredible, joyful part of my life to work with college students and to see and feel their energy and to see and feel their commitment and passion for the church, and now to see some of them actually actively engaged in ministry is such a cool blessing too. And then also opportunities in a lot of those classes to teach good biblical Lutheran theology to kids who had never practically even heard of Jesus or been to church or anything like that, and that side of the coin as well was a great, eye-opening experience.
Speaker 3:One thing that I didn't talk about yet was between high school and college. I spent a year singing in a Christian group called Joy Incorporated. Some listeners might know it or remember it. It's not, it's been defunct many years. But we traveled all around the United States singing in congregations, staying in people's homes. It's where I met my wife, who had become my wife, tammy, and it was. You know, just to see the church and to see the country in people's homes was an eye-opening experience, and to see their faithfulness in all different kinds of settings.
Speaker 3:And I'd be remiss if I wouldn't talk about my seminary experience. I mean, it was went to Concordia Seminary, st Louis, and the the profs there molded me and shaped me and formed me in ways that I could have never imagined or dreamed. Just the impact that they continue to have on my life, some who have now even gone on to heaven, some who've retired, some of whom are still there and doing great work. But to be able to engage in the type of study and learning of theology in a seminary setting is something that I wish everybody had the opportunity to do. You know, we've seen it. A lot of listeners, I'm sure, know or have heard about Flame, the rapper who just came out with a book that CPH put out, and his transformation in going to, you know, the seminary and learning at the feet of our profs there is yeah, there you go. Extra no, yes, it has been such a great, a great thing to see him and to listen to him.
Speaker 3:And then, finally, as I as we've been talking about already my work with LCEF just being able to see all the different types of ministries and pastors and congregations and leaders who are doing incredible work, that the work that we get to do is typically with congregations who are actually who actually want to move forward in ministry, who want to do something, and, you know, sometimes it feels like our church gets such a bad rap and, yes, we're shrinking and all the rest of that. But, man, we get to see, in our position, we get to see these churches that are doing great stuff, stuff that you may never hear about, but stuff that really has an impact on their people and on their community, wherever it might be. It really gives me hope for our church to see the things and to work with the people that we get to work with. I know this kind of a long-winded answer to your question, but it's a lots of great stuff and experiences that God has given to me.
Speaker 2:Lord has given you a fantastic life journey. Following after him, flame's going to be on the podcast here in a couple weeks. Awesome, that's going to be fun. The other thing, too you talk about churches that give you hope. Could you go a little bit more into depth on a story or two, or just the rhythms of hope that you find in a number of, because you're working in congregations, larger and smaller too that are looking to grow. So, yeah, tell us some stories of hope in our LCMS congregations.
Speaker 3:Yeah, Okay, so I was just this past weekend.
Speaker 3:I was just working with congregation in Mentor, Ohio, which is just I think it's just east of Cleveland a little bit. It's a congregation, a smaller congregation, but it's a congregation that just a few years ago joined together. There was another very small congregation in the area that recognized they were on their last legs and kudos to the leaders of both churches for saying, instead of wasting time, wasting resources, let's come together and actually try to join forces, let's not waste resources, let's share a pastor and actually become the same church. And so they took the opportunity to go through what we call our ministry clarity process, which is a strategic planning process, because they recognized that they're still in the early stages of working together as two separate congregations who have come together in one.
Speaker 3:It's mainly an older congregation, but man, the energy that we had in the room just this past Sunday. We had 50 people in the room. I think there were maybe 80 people, 85 people in church that morning. 50 of them stuck around because they love the Lord and they love his church and they want to see their church continue to have an impact in their lives and on the community there in Mentor Ohio. That's just one tiny little thing that we get to see and one ray of hope that we get to shine into the world.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's another characteristic of a number of these churches. To get to the point of wanting to work with LCEF and ask for help, there has to be two things right A sense of humility and a sense of mission. Absolutely, we are a part of God's bigger story and they want to reach their community with the gospel, would you say. Those are two characteristics of these congregations.
Speaker 3:Yeah, for sure. They're kind of at the point where, yes, we want to do something, but how are we going to do it? So how can we have it? And that's a real sign of humility we don't know it all. Let's call somebody in to come alongside us, not to tell us what to do, but to just guide the process. Help us learn what we can do right here in the place that God has called us to be, and recognize that we are unique as a congregation, that God has given us this piece of property right here for a purpose, and that purpose is to impact this community right around us. He's called a specific pastor who has specific gifts.
Speaker 3:There's a reason why every single member of that congregation is sitting there in those pews every week and God brings all those resources together. You know the land, the property, the pastor, the people, the money, even brings all that together for special and specific purposes, and we get to come alongside them and say, okay, now how do we align all this and how do we use it to expand the kingdom, to move ministry forward? And it's such an incredible blessing to be able to walk alongside pastors and congregations and to hear the feedback from all the members of the congregation, as they kind of speak into it, and then it all comes together with a plan that they get to use, moving forward for three, four, five years. So yes, humility and seeking after God's mission, I would say, are absolutely the two keys that a congregation like that has, and you see more and more of them the more I work out there, the more of them that I'm beginning to see cropping up to the surface.
Speaker 2:So good. Thank you for your work. Confessing conservative Lutheranism, biblical Lutheranism really you could just say Christianity has a mission and it's God's mission. And sometimes on this podcast we kind of I don't really want to get into this right now you wrestle with the confessional, missional kind of continuum and we kind of bifurcate along those lines. But I pray we just read the book of Acts today with a fresh lens.
Speaker 2:There's no mission apart from the Word of God and the Holy Spirit, who brings the Word of God to life? The book of Acts is the Acts of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit just pops up over and over again and do you remember when Jesus is going? Wait for power from on high right and they head back to Jerusalem. They spend time in deep prayer and then the Holy Spirit falls and they start to prophesy and the book of Joel comes to fruition as young and old men are dreaming new dreams and speaking new things about now.
Speaker 2:It seems like an old thing for us the life, death, resurrection, ascension of Jesus being the promised Messiah, that there's never this differentiation between the Word of God and declaring the things of God. And I would like to get your take on this point, because there can be this sense that the laity here you just hear and the pastor proclaims. Now I would say that's a primary function. The pastor is called to proclaim the Word of God for the people of God, but then they're called to carry the message of Jesus to the best sense, prophesy to the things that God has done in their life, in their various vocations. Final note here I'd love to get your take on the book of Acts.
Speaker 2:But in Acts, chapter 8, you've got this weird story where they've been baptized, these Samaritan Christians now, which is fascinating, right, the Gospel's gone from Jerusalem today to Samaria. There in Acts 8, they've been baptized, but just in the name of Jesus. And then they get baptized in this Trinitarian baptism and it says that they receive they're not baptized a second time, they receive the Holy Spirit. They receive the Holy Spirit. So there is this intimate connection. And what do they start to do? They begin to prophesy, to talk about the things of God there in Samaria and beyond. So this intimate connection between receiving the Holy Spirit which we receive in the waters of baptism and then prophesying to the things that God has done, and this is for, I would say, all of the baptized, not just the ordained, though we should be leading in that effort Any thoughts along the necessity of the book of Acts to come alive in the local church today.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, for sure. So yesterday I mentioned a little earlier that we were doing some work here with some entrepreneurial type of ministry with Ben Hoyer Do you know, Ben? At?
Speaker 2:all oh gosh, yes, Ben, and our classmates Tom.
Speaker 3:Ben is doing incredible work here in Orlando and we were meeting with him and it boils down to the precise point that you were talking about.
Speaker 3:How do we utilize people who own and run businesses let's just say who are entrepreneurs or run whatever kind of business it might be and how do we engage them and encourage them to live out their Christian faith and have an impact on the culture and the community, like we were talking about before, as they're empowered to do it by the Holy Spirit, through Word and sacrament, but to really have to really corral that, to lasso it, if you were into their daily life, so that they're having an impact, not just on Sunday morning, but so that they're actually impacting the people that work for them.
Speaker 3:They're impacting their clients and people begin to see both the people who work for them and their clients are beginning to see something different about the way this guy or this woman is doing their business and the way they're carrying out their daily life and the things that they're doing and the way that they're treating people and all the rest of that, and they begin to say you know, what is it that's different about you and how can I be a part of that, and so we'd love to be a part of that in any church that we work with, and we'd love to be able to encourage that in all of our communities and we'd love to see that moving forward. I don't care what part of the spectrum you're on in the Missouri Synod. That's an incredible thing that your members can be doing every day of the week away from church on Sunday mornings.
Speaker 2:And then so good. What behaviors do you hope more LCMS leaders, from pastors, laymen and women all the way to our synodical leaders in our various RSOs like LCF. What qualities do you pray they exemplify and avoid as we become a more united, healthier church body?
Speaker 3:You know I'm going to give a shout out to our. You kind of joked about Bart earlier on that. He passed me on to you. But Bart Day has been an incredible leader for LCF and I have to say the very first discussion that I had with him before I actually received the call at LCF, one of the points Bart wanted to make to me was if you become, if you get this job and work at LCF, I just want you to know that LCF is for the whole church.
Speaker 3:We serve anybody and everybody who lives and thrives and does ministry in the Lutheran Church of Missouri Synod. We serve, no matter who they are, no matter what part of the spectrum. We serve them well and he made that clear to me that he wanted me to do that as I operated in my ministry in the new position that I would be taking. But Bart exemplifies it just about a little over a year ago he brought together a whole group of people for a future search. I don't know if you've ever been a part of one of those, but it's an incredible process. I was Tom Tom. It just clicked you were there weren't you.
Speaker 2:I was there, yes.
Speaker 3:Yes, we were there together.
Speaker 2:That's right, it was a bigger group. It was a group of maybe what? 50, 60 people, so you and I just didn't get a chance to chat to you. Yeah, yeah, yeah, there we go.
Speaker 3:And so, and think about that room, Tim right, I mean, no matter who, it was a who's who of the Missouri Synod, and it did include everybody on every part of the spectrum, and I loved and this is the point I was trying to make earlier let's get in the same room, talk to each other and listen to each other. Those two and a half days together were incredible because we did talk to each other in the same room, listened to each other, came out of there with some great ideas, opportunities, solutions that we might do in providing leadership training or leadership encouragement in the church. Moving forward was just a great two days, and so those are the kinds of things that I would love to see any all of the leaders in the LCMS exemplify is bringing people together in the same room, talking to each other, listening to each other, breaking down barriers, putting away fear, you know, and then moving forward in ministry, because we have such a great thing to share and to show.
Speaker 2:Amen. You know, I think some people think, well, the LCMS is heading for a split, there's gonna be. There's people that are discontent. I'm like I don't, I don't see that. I don't see that. I see men and women in leadership positions, like yourself that are seeking, with Bart, to turn the Chief up projects going around and presidents, or like me, invite folks from all different perspectives to the table.
Speaker 2:And even though I and others who are like me made challenge some of the systems and the behaviors within our church body, I'm still a part of the family and you don't just walk away from family, right. And so there's, insofar as I have control and I have very little control, the Lord is in control I will not ever advocate for any sort of separation. I will advocate toward unity. The church doesn't need the big C church. The Catholic church does not need another splinter off church body. I mean, I lament.
Speaker 2:I've listened to a number of my Catholic brothers and sisters. You know who will make this argument. You know there's still only one Holy Christian Apostolic Church and they may say based on the structure of Roman Catholicism, and we may disagree a little bit there. Nonetheless, I do agree that wherever Jesus is confessed as Lord, they're the churches. Wherever we gather around Word and Sacrament, they're the churches. And when we divide, especially with the incredible heritage of the Reformation and Martin Luther and the Reformers, man, when we divide man, it's a major, major black eye in terms of the winsome witness of the church. And so, yeah, let's work together and not against one another. Couldn't agree more.
Speaker 3:Let's disagree more, yes.
Speaker 2:Let's disagree agreeably and create more of those rooms, and not just at national places though I love that Bart was modeling that but within our districts, absolutely.
Speaker 1:Within our circuits.
Speaker 3:Yes, for goodness sake, let's just start there.
Speaker 2:Get pastors in different contexts within our circuits together to love and care for one another and hold one another accountable as toward the confessions and our collective mission to reach people. Reach people with the gospel. I only have one more question, but any response to that. Tom, this has been fun.
Speaker 3:None other than I completely agree. That's exactly what needs to happen. I love it. Yeah, we need to work more toward unity and less toward separation.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so what do you hope the LCMS looks and feels like in 2050, roughly one generation from now, tom?
Speaker 3:Yeah, so we've been given incredible resources, first and foremost, obviously, scripture and confessions. We've been given the resource of a great church that has a great history. But even beyond that, maybe in a more mundane way, we've been given, especially in the United States. We've been given such incredible blessings, like the blessing of land that our forefathers purchased, probably sacrificing a whole lot to purchase some of the properties that our churches sit on, the incredible buildings that have been built, the institutions that we have.
Speaker 3:What I would love to see moving forward, if I'm standing here in 2050 and looking at the Lutheran Church Missouri Synod, I would love for us to really take proper advantage of all the resources that we've been given and, if that means that there is a dying church sitting on a piece of property that's in California or New York that's worth a lot of money, that we don't just sell it and try to do something with the money, but that we actually repurpose the resources that we have so that we continue to have great opportunities in every community in the United States as much as we are able to have a real impact.
Speaker 3:Whether or not it's a church sitting there, at least it might be a ministry that's leading people, drawing people, bringing people into relationships that will lead them to Word and Sacrament ministry, and to do that in innovative and creative ways. And again, I don't care if you're which part of the spectrum you're on, we can all be innovative and creative in different ways with the resources that God has given to us. And so that's the I think that's the biggest thing I'd like to see happen, you know, over the course of the next 25 years or so, is just for us to take proper advantage of the incredible resources that we have as a church and use them to advance ministry, to expand the kingdom, to have an impact locally and then, you know, nationally and even globally.
Speaker 2:Yes, love it and want to be a part of that. I really believe there's going to be a generation as culture changes and it's post Christian, pre-peggin, whatever you want to say. People are going to. The Holy Spirit is at work. Do we anticipate the Holy Spirit being at work and reaching people in creative ways? Like you say, one thing that we're exploring is if there's a multi-site, it probably is going to be launched first from a micro church expression. So there's some element of revenue generation and this is where the church needs to have all of the gifted people within the body of Christ, the land developers or redevelopers at the table to say you can have revenue generating ministry. Maybe it's older adults, senior living, maybe it's a preschool, maybe it's a restaurant of some sort. You know that is a blessing to the community coffee shop, whatever. And then there are these micro church expressions that are connected to that for Word and Sacrament ministry, one of you talked about.
Speaker 2:I know listeners probably were wondering why I didn't jump on it. I believe seminary education is the best. If you can get to residential seminary education, do it. And I believe we've been given an amazing trust where, given this season of technology and not having a online MDiv that a lot of the amazing theologians can be leveraged to help in these micro church type of starts. And we're running an experiment right now toward that end brain that a number of folks kind of look into how we're raising up bivocational and co-vocational leaders. A number of them, especially co-vocational they are the entrepreneurs that are in our churches that want to explore not for profit ministry driven by for profit entrepreneurial ideas, all with a kingdom expanding bent. So yes, thank you Tom for leading toward that end and Bart Day leading toward that end. I know LCF is thinking very, very creatively on how to leverage resources for creative kingdom expanding ideas, like I just spoke about. Any final final comments? This has been so much fun, tom, thank you.
Speaker 3:No, thank you, Tim. This is. These are the kinds of conversations that I love having. These are the kinds of conversations that I hope our church has a lot more. And you know, I'd be remiss if I wouldn't encourage people to be creative in their local ministry, whatever that might look like, and to use the resources that God has given them to move forward, to expand the kingdom. Amen.
Speaker 2:This is lead time. Sharing is caring. Please like, subscribe, comment wherever it is. You're taking podcasts and we promise to have kingdom expanding, joy filled, hope filled, Jesus filled conversations with amazing leaders like Tom and beyond. It's a good day. Go and make it a great day. We'll see you next week on lead time. Thanks so much, Tom.
Speaker 3:This is a great day, thank you.
Speaker 1:You've been listening to lead time, a podcast of the Unite Leadership Collector. The ULC's mission is to collaborate with the local church to discover, develop and deploy leaders through biblical Lutheran doctrine and innovative methods To partner with us in this gospel message. Subscribe to our channel, then go to the Unite leadershiporg to create your free login for exclusive material and resources and then to explore ways in which you can sponsor an episode. Thanks for listening and stay tuned for next week's episode.