Lead Time
Lead Time
Real Talk: How United is the LCMS? | Hot Topic Friday with Rev. Dr. Jeff Skopak
What happens when you bring ministry to an eclectic and diverse mountain town? Reverend Dr. Jeff Skopak shares his remarkable journey serving at Emmanuel Lutheran Church and School in Asheville, North Carolina. Jeff unveils the unexpected joys and unique challenges of ministering in a community where the cultural, social, and political landscape is as varied as the Blue Ridge Mountains themselves. From engaging with pre-Christian families to partnering with Evangelism Explosion, Jeff's stories highlight the profound impact of meeting people where they are—even if that means reaching out near an LGBTQ bar. This episode promises to leave you with a renewed perspective on inclusivity and outreach in modern ministry.
Join us as we reflect on the highs and lows of pastoral work, emphasizing the significance of personal connections in ministry. Drawing from experiences in New Jersey, we explore how mental and physical health are crucial for pastors and the unique role they play in people's lives. We also tackle the frustrations of dealing with egos and cleaning up past pastoral messes, while celebrating the growth of faith within communities. Finally, we dive into the complexities of unity within the Lutheran Church–Missouri Synod, underscoring the importance of loving, constructive dialogue to build a more united church body. This heartfelt conversation is not to be missed!
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this is lead time welcome to lead time hot topic friday. I pray wherever you're taking this in. The joy of the lord is your strength. As I get to hang out today with a good friend, longtime ministry partner, reverend dr jeff skopak, let me tell you a little bit about Jeff. He has served in a number of congregations. Most recently he is serving at Emanuel Lutheran Church and School infant through eighth grade ministry there, praise God in Asheville, north Carolina and, as you just described it, the land of microbrews, distilleries and wineries and every colorful character in our culture that you can possibly imagine. It's a very eclectic place to bring Word and Sacrament to be sure, how you doing, jeff hey.
Speaker 3:I'm doing great, tim, and I wish you could be here with me in Asheville, because this is truly one of the most beautiful places that God has put on the planet Earth. It is stunning here, absolutely beautiful, nestled in the Blue Ridge Mountains. From some of my members' homes, you can see the mountains in Tennessee. It's a spectacular place.
Speaker 2:I'll have to take a trip one of these days. We're going to jump right into it. This is three topics, 10 minutes each. This is going to be a lot of fun and some of these questions the last one in particular a little bit more spicy hot than the first two. So on a scale of first question here, start the timer now. Okay, good, good. On a scale of one to 10, how you've been a minister now of the gospel for 32 years, ordained in the Lutheran Church, missouri Synod. On a scale of one to 10, how on fire are you for the ministry of your local church and why did you give that rating, jeff?
Speaker 3:Well, I would love to say a 10. I think we all would like to say a 10, but ministry is hard, so I'm going to give it an eight plus. The reason I'm giving it an eight plus here in this last quarter of my time of ministry, as I kind of segmented it out like football quarters, god has dropped me in the most unique community that I could have ever imagined. Serving in Asheville is kind of Austin, weird in the mountains. We have everything going on here. You name it culturally, socially, politically, and in the middle of it is our church. I mean, our church is in West Asheville, we're only a couple of blocks from downtown.
Speaker 3:They moved out here in 1959. Church is 120 years old. It's moved out here in 1959. So they had room to build a school and provide Christian education, and our school is thriving. It's moved out here in 1959. So they had room to build a school and provide Christian education, and our school is thriving. It's robust. Now I'll tell you, it's an interesting group of parents bringing their kids to our school. So we have everything in that Asheville spectrum and yet they're choosing to bring children for the love of Jesus, knowing they're going to get care, knowing they're going to hear about Jesus, knowing that they're going to get care, knowing they're going to hear about Jesus, knowing that they're going to be received just who they are. So I love that about our community.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so you told me you had gosh a hundred plus your ECE. Your early childhood center is blowing up and then K-8 has a little bit more room for growth, so you're serving about 250 kids or so and a number of families. What percentage of those families go to your church?
Speaker 3:Oh, it's low, I want to say it's about 5%, A little more in the early childhood than in the Christian day school, but it's growing. When they called me to be the pastor, we also brought in a director of Christian education, a young man by the name of Alexi Lundquist. Alexi is a rock star and his call is unique because he spends about 75% of his time in the school community. He is my middle school religion teacher. He is my early childhood chapel leader. You never find him in his office. In fact, one day he came into my office and he's like is everything good? I said when you're in your office, that's when I'm suspicious. So he's out there engaging with the kids, engaging with the parents. It's exciting. It really is exciting to see how the school ministry is now becoming a foothold into the bigger community of Asheville.
Speaker 2:Well, to be sure.
Speaker 2:So I've been in conversation recently with Brother Pastors and one in particular.
Speaker 2:We were having a conversation around context and he said when he moved from one of these brothers in particular that when he moved from the upper Midwest down to the East Valley here that it was pretty much the same and ministry is pretty much the same.
Speaker 2:And I said, okay, that could be true, but the difference between your congregation slightly older congregation, a little older adult community and my congregation, where our percentage of non-church families is about 60%, including our early learning center, so not nearly the percentage that you have there at Emanuel, that's a very different thing to do ministry with young families. So what are some of the strategic ways? Especially those who are pre-Christian, those who maybe are more secular, maybe spiritual, not religious. That's the way they identify. They recognize their kids have this spiritual yearning and they're okay with you talking about Jesus, but they're, in terms of engaging on Sunday in, sunday out, they probably are one generation removed from like their parents probably weren't even that connected. This is what we're seeing a lot, especially in our more secular urban areas. Anything to add to how diverse of a population it is you're serving, jeff.
Speaker 3:Oh good. Well, let me put it to you this way Within 200 yards of our church is a LGBTQ bar called the Odd, where they do reviews out there on the street. So that's about 200 yards from my church. Gives you an idea of the community a little bit. Talking about Jesus with people is where it's at. Recently we've partnered with the old Evangelism Explosion, dr James Kennedy they're headquartered here in Asheville Got some friends from there, met them, have grown a relationship.
Speaker 3:We ended up doing an Equip America conference here. It's a one-day kind of blitz on how do you talk about your relationship with Jesus with someone else. And then the people didn't realize it when they signed up for the conference. But morning we did all the talking. We had lunch, then we went out to the neighborhood and just started talking to people randomly. I went over to a laundromat and we struck up a conversation with a guy. Two Sundays later he and his daughter are sitting in church on a Sunday morning with us. Another couple did the same thing, went out. We're talking to a young woman. Next thing, you know, the woman is crying.
Speaker 3:We got her hooked up with a Spanish speaking ministry here in town. She's more of a Spanish speaker, but we're not afraid to talk about Jesus. That's the key. And if you want to engage people like in our school and the like, talk to the parents about Jesus, talk about why faith matters, and this is what we're doing. It's this isn't rocket science, this is relational, and these are people who have chosen to have a relationship with us, so let's share the most precious thing we have with them. That's what we're doing. We are working on getting every single member equipped with tools so they do not fear evangelistic opportunities. That's what we're working on in 2024, 2025.
Speaker 2:So I'm going to play devil's advocate here a little bit. You're doing Kennedy evangelism Jeff, like have you heard of Lutheran hour? And some other ways Like. You're obviously compromising on doctrine, jeff, by partnering or even learning with evangelicals, especially around evangelism.
Speaker 3:Let me give you some insight. Confront that. So back in the Stone Age, when I was at the seminary, we used Dialogue Evangelism 1 and 2, written by Dr Biesenthal. In fact, I'm so old I had Biese teaching us this. Well, guess what? Dialogue Evangelism 1 and 2 were based on Evangelism Explosion by Dr James Kennedy. Dr James Kennedy gave the Lutheran Church Missouri Synod the rights to make a Lutheranized version of Dialogue Evangelism, and it works. It works because we're talking about Jesus. We're talking about five very simple things with people and that's how we build the relationship. I don't have to remember crazy acronyms. It's Bible, it's relationship, it's sharing and oh, by the way, we're doing it in a very Lutheran context as we bring it to them, heading towards sacramental understanding of baptism, Lord's Supper and a walk with Jesus.
Speaker 2:It's interesting how, as the world has gone a certain way, jeff, I don't think our appetite for nuance is growing. I think we're becoming more clandestine, more tribal, and I don't think that's benefiting us in terms of our gospel winsome witness. While not compromising theology Anything more to say about tribalism in the LCMS, I would agree in the LCMS yeah.
Speaker 3:I would agree. You know the world is becoming increasingly less Christian, increasingly pre-Christian, as you put it. Tribalism doesn't serve the opportunity of the gospel to share Jesus in a larger, broader, grander way with the communities in which we find ourselves planted. We don't need to look at each other as enemies, but maybe as allies. I realize some churches are definitely challenged when it comes to their understanding of the authenticity and the integrity of scripture. They're not our allies and you know what? They're shrinking faster than the others are, so in a way, I think God is kind of taking care of that. We have to figure out how to work together with those that are walking in the same pathway as we are.
Speaker 2:And what I'm saying. Yeah, I couldn't agree more and we should talk more about what makes us as Lutherans distinct and not be afraid of that Right and the liturgy, our traditional worship. I believe the next generation, jeff, is going to be more prone. We're seeing actually a greater growth in our more liturgical. Actually, both contemporary and traditional is liturgical, but we're the robes, the smells, bell, that kind of stuff. More of our families are actually coming to that service now and more of our boomers are saying, hey, we need the rock and roll band or whatever that kind of stuff. I think we've got a lot that we can learn and offer to the wider church if we will actually engage in conversation, and I don't know that we're engaging in the conversation.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I would totally agree with you. We're seeing kind of a neat divide of people who are coming into our ministry now, younger families choosing the traditional liturgical service. You know, just this past week I had a family from Memorial in Houston, Memorial Lutheran Church here and I think they were pleasantly surprised at one, how liturgical we were. Number two, how very much according to the Lutheran ethos we present ministry. And number three, how many younger families were there? I think you're right. We do see more of that boomer age group at our later service and coming to that one. Who knows, Things are cyclical, We'll see.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, and I think, to close this section, I think the biggest heart that we have is that you can have liturgical, traditional smells, bells, very ordered worship and it can still be remarkably evangelical and hospitable.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I have to add this to it, which was really funny. We recently hosted the Southeastern District Pastors Conference here. You know new guy, hey, by the way, can you host the worship service? So they told me what they wanted and I don't think anybody realizes I can chant and I can chant really well, you have a lovely voice.
Speaker 3:Afterwards a couple of guys came up to me and one guy said to me it was so funny, he goes. You know, I thought I could chant and he goes. I really stink compared to you. I got to up my game.
Speaker 1:So let's go, we invest in that.
Speaker 3:Let's do it. If we're going to do something, do it well do it with excellence, amen, all right.
Speaker 2:So we went a little over on that one. That's okay. We live by the gospel freedom, jeff. It's not by the law here, so we went a little over 10, but that's all right. That's all right. What have been second question Sure, start the clock now what have been your top three joys in ministry and top three frustrations?
Speaker 3:I love this question. I was thinking about this quite a bit. I jotted down a few notes for myself. I think, first and foremost, one of the great joys of ministry has been these personal connections with people and families that have transcended location. So, even though I may have moved away, we're still connected and tying into that. A second one is these moments when God was using me and I had no clue how important my role was in their life at that moment, as I brought them the comfort of the word of God, the peace of Jesus, the love of Christ, and I think those two are they're very much hand in glove. I'll use the example.
Speaker 3:I was in New Jersey for 10 years. I had a phenomenal music director. He was a tough guy to work with but I learned how to work with him and he had a tremendous music ministry in our church. We had a 45 voice choir in a church that worshiped 450. I had to renovate the church in order to make room for this choir.
Speaker 3:A couple of years back, I'm now a pastor down in Florida and his son died tragically of a brain aneurysm and I had no idea the importance I served in that family's life. I flew up for the funeral. I said I'm coming for the funeral Next thing. You know I'm one of the lead participants in the funeral and that was never my goal. Since then, this family tunes in every week and watches our early service, whether I was in Jacksonville, florida, or now here in Asheville, north Carolina. He still sees me as that significant part in his journey with Jesus. And you just look at that and you go, pastor. Sometimes we don't realize these incredibly important moments that don't seem that important to us at the moment but are to the people we're serving. So personal connections. And then those moments that follow it.
Speaker 2:Can we pause? Yeah, let's pause on that. There is no other profession that gets to be at the highest of highs and lowest of lows. Most others live in one of those two realms, yeah, but the pastor. This is why pastoral health, mental health, physical care, all of those things are very important because in one day you can have both of those occurrences take place.
Speaker 3:Oh, absolutely.
Speaker 2:A couple of weeks ago I had one of those days, man from the highest of highs, going from about 630 in the morning until seven, eight at night. And that's not every day, by the way, that would not be healthy, but it was the highest of highs and lowest of lows, and what a what an honor. That is right.
Speaker 3:It is. I mean, this is that whole notion of the, of the servant role, of ministry and not lording it over people. But you know, call it what it is getting down and washing somebody's feet when they need their feet washed, you know, that's, that's kind of the, the joy I look at that. It's an incredible joy and privilege to be in these moments in people's lives, both at the high and at the low end, and even in those very call it what it is mediocre moments of life where you're just sitting there talking with somebody and maybe having a meal with them or drinking a beer and just being in each other's presence. Being in each other's presence, ministry affords you that that. I don't know of any other thing out there that really affords you that kind of, you know, walk in somebody's life. That's been a great joy. It really has you got one or two more joys left.
Speaker 2:I got one more, because those are two I gave you personal connections and then moments.
Speaker 3:The third is I've had so much fun over the years watching not only people grow in faith but ministries grow collectively, as people work together, as ministries expand. You know back when I tend to go back to New Jersey quite a bit. It was a great 10 years of ministry there In a retirement community. I had 45 shut-ins. It was a replenishable group. I served in a retirement community, not all that different than the villages in Florida. So in order to commune all those people I had a retired pastor and he and I would run and do all the homebound visits. But our board of elders would follow up and do a monthly call with them. We realized it needed another blanket of care, so we developed a board of shepherds and the shepherds could be homebound people themselves. They would call on each other once a week. There was always this intense connection to the church with prayer, with scripture, with just simple conversation and just to watch that ministry grow. That was so much fun to do. We did this in Arizona when I was in Tucson and we realized we were disconnected from the community in which we were in. So we started this whole social ministry outreach. Well, that grew into a backpack feeding program called Haven Totes with the schools. We were feeding something. When I left we were feeding about 2,000 kids a week, had expanded to about five different churches scattered around. Tucson started a thrift store on campus just to watch that ministry flourish and grow and watch people jump into it and get involved in it.
Speaker 3:Bible study network I mean here I have a raft of very, very highly educated lay leaders that are excellent teachers that teach Bible study and watching it multiply. Right now we're a kind of leader over all of it. Scott put out an email. He's like hey, what do you all want to study? There's like 14 ideas in the hopper that's going to be coming down the road in latter July, early August, to see people get excited and enthused about ministry and watching it take off, watching it grow. I mean good heavens, that's where you just sit back and you smile. It's kind of like your proud papa moment, so to speak.
Speaker 2:I mean, it's your Ephesians 4 moment, yeah, moments. You exist to equip the saints for love and good deeds. That's it. Around their various gifting. I love that. That was your last one, all right, we only got like three minutes for three frustrations, so we're not going to dwell on these much. Go ahead, rip them out.
Speaker 3:Frustrations are easy when people's egos and desires seem to become greater than what they believe the ministry to be. And you're always going to run into that. You're going to run into that person, that just their ego, their desire. They're not listening to people in the room, they're not reading and measuring where the ministry is at. I'll give you one that I've had to do in ministry. I'm really tired of having to clean up some pastoral messes that preceded me, from financial to structural, to abusive people. That's why I think I accepted this call. There wasn't anything to clean up, so to speak. It was step in love people, lead people and charge forward. There's a lot of clergy abuse out there on congregations. There just is, and that's been a frustration for sure.
Speaker 2:And I'll mean your first one. Yeah, go ahead, let me just pause right there. Sure, your your first two. So pride, which is the root sin for God, really say we're, we're idol making factories, right, and we love to make ourselves into, into God. So my way is always the right way. Pride is a killer. And then I think pride is intimately connected to you said clergy abuse, and that may be kind of a strong language. Name the nature, and again, we would never name names here, but we're so prone when we become out of balance. On the office of holy ministry and the priesthood of all believers and congregations have allowed pastors, I would say, to unfortunately exert too much authority and power. That is such a dance, clergy and the congregation, right. So say more about the nature of that clergy abuse.
Speaker 3:Well, this happens. Sometimes a pastor can get into a situation where the congregation is excited to have a pastor, so they just start giving into whatever he wants without realizing that there should be boundaries. There's a reason churches have constitution and bylaws. There's a reason why there's different structures and forms of church governance. Not every pastor can fit every governance model and sometimes the church will get swayed into changing some of that and the next thing, you know, a pastor who really can't handle administrative, structural staffing challenges is put in a role where he's given that and chaos ensues. That's. That's one of those moments. I think that's a fair one. Like, like I've often said, you have to match a pastor to a governance just as much as you do to the, to the congregation and its makeup.
Speaker 2:Yep, no, I love that. I love that you went to governance and it gets more to, because then we can keep it more system centered. A lot of times, people really want well, tell me the issue. We're often talking about a system problem rather than an individual problem, and when a mismatch occurs between a pastor and the governance, that's exactly what's happened. Yeah for sure. So what last frustration? Last one I have?
Speaker 3:is when churches waste resources. You know there is this economy of stewardship that God gives to a church and call it what it is. We need to be mindful of the resources we have and use those resources accordingly. Resources we have and use those resources accordingly. And sometimes church is either a sit on the resources. Endowments can be a dangerous thing when they're sitting on a resource, just as spending wildly with resources after things that ultimately don't produce ministry, just feed fat tummies, so to speak. It's it just it's. It's more than just serving us. We need to look at how do we use what we've received to get the word out into the community, out to the people, grow the kingdom of God. So wasting resources drives me nuts.
Speaker 2:I wish it would drive more pastors nuts, right, yeah, and we always, as we land this plane in this section, we always are in transition. If I could just pray for pastors to care more about transition after the. So how is my leadership preparing the way for the next leader in my role and do I want to saddle him with remarkable debt et cetera? I'd rather not do that. I'd rather this congregation be healthy and equipped, released, and that he gets to come in and just help cast vision and take them into the next season of ministry. Praise, be to God. We are all in transition and my stay here will come to an end and I don't think pastors think about that enough. We should. We're going to die.
Speaker 3:Thankfully we know the risen Jesus. I tell the people here, when they called me I said given everything, if I remain healthy, I'll be here 10 years. It'll be wonderful.
Speaker 1:You never know what's going to happen.
Speaker 3:We always need to know what is the long-term plan that long follows me. What? What is our model of leadership? What kind of pastor are we going to need to bring in after me? What are the? Where are we going in ministry? Are we growing the school, or is this what we're supposed to be? So on, you always have to think bigger picture.
Speaker 2:Agree, amen, all right, let's. We landed that one a little over, but again, it's okay, it's okay. Question number three, again slightly more spicy On a scale of one to 10, how united is the Lutheran Church, missouri Synod? I've had some, some brothers in the ministry, say things, emails to me or even make public statements that the conversations we're having are destroying unity. I've heard that you're destroying your unity. I'm trying to just actually name problems and work on collaborative solutions. That's the heart behind Lead Time and the Unite Leadership Collective. So, on a scale of one to 10, how united are we? And why did you give that score and what are the top three things in your mind we could do to raise said score?
Speaker 3:Sure, If I were to quantify it numerically, which I think is really hard. So I'm going to pause on the quantification numerically. That's okay Instead.
Speaker 3:I'm going to say this is what I see. I'm going to pre-qualify my number, what I see I'm going to pre-qualify my number. First and foremost, we've become very, very siloed in the Lutheran Church Missouri Synod, and what I mean by that is we tend to find the echo chamber that we like and reside there in. So if we, for example, are very much of a very high Anglo-Catholic model of ministry, we might find a silo out there, like this group, gottesdienst. If we prefer a conversation that's robust and focuses and centers around a kind of 16th century Lutheran church father speak, we might find that silo in the Brothers of John the Steadfast or this Bugenhagen group. If we are of a larger church model, big church and the like, we might find ourselves in the what are we calling it now? The large church network.
Speaker 3:I believe, you might find that is your silo, and so on and so on. I'm just using those as examples. I'm not casting judgment or aspersion on any of them, but what happens is all we're doing is hearing ourselves. We're hearing what we want to hear, and I do believe, and the exponential increase of internet, of online groups, the speed and the power of which communication now happens, has really cut us off from really talking to each other. I've been here in North Carolina now about a year. We've had one circuit meeting, one, that's it, and I don't think we're going to have another one for who knows when, which prevents me from getting to know my brothers, who are probably different. Now I'm in Asheville.
Speaker 3:Again, we are in a very different community than, say, the two churches closest to us. One is in Clyde, out in Waynesville, west of us, one is in Hendersonville, much more traditional LCMS looking ministries, but reflective of their communities. I would assume. I don't know either pastor, I really don't, and that's a shame. That's a shame when we say we're united but we don't act and behave like we're united, then we have a problem and we're not destroying what unity we have. I mean, your question really is you know what is the unity we have. Well, our unity is very outward. It's, you know, it's Concordia Publishing House, it's the university system, it's the seminaries. We can look at these big block items and say this is what unites us. Some will joke and say well, it's Lutheran Church Extension Fund and the Concordia plans.
Speaker 3:In theology, we're united in scripture and I would disagree with those that say we're not united in theology. Come to Asheville. I can show you the crazy land. I mean, I can show you where there is no unity in the authenticity of God's word, the legitimacy of the Lutheran confessions. It's all around me here and there's crazy stuff going on. We are united but we're not spending time together in meaningful conversation. You want to ruin someone's faith? Send them to a synodical convention. It is about the most disunited room I've ever seen and I can give you the percentages Votes go 65, 35, 70, 30, 60, 40.
Speaker 1:We're not united.
Speaker 3:I mean, those are moments of great disunity, and that's my answer. So I'll give you a robust three plus. If 10 is a high mark of unity, maybe a three, three plus. And I would tell you if we could get more united, more conversation, more meaningful conversations about pastoral formation, about gospel ministry, outreach, about fill in all your blanks. Maybe we could be doing something bigger for Jesus. Just a thought for Jesus.
Speaker 2:Just the thought. Yeah, Again thinking systemically. I don't know what spirit and I don't think it's a dark spirit per se. I may have said that on various podcasts, but I don't think it's a light spirit, it's a protective spirit, it's a fear-based spirit that keeps us because my identity is in Christ.
Speaker 2:If you have a problem with something I've said or a brother has said, like I really want to know, and I will be quick, I've written about it I'll be quick to say you know, I could have said that differently.
Speaker 2:I can be right in wrong ways and that's all wrong. Right, If we lose love, we're a clanging gong Like that's not a winsome witness to the world. But yet I don't understand at the national level, I know. So I'm just going to get super specific here. I know folks are talking about the leadership formation pathway that we're exploring, testing here in our congregation and many congregations are starting to test, but there is no one in a voted upon synodical role or those who serve in leadership roles positioned there in the national or international office that will like come on to have a conversation with me. I may talk to them on a phone call, but I really believe that if we have loving, disagreeing, agreeably, conversations in the public square and, let's be honest, the Synod Convention is not a place for robust discussion. When I get to a mic and I'm already sensing in the room, here comes Allman. He's going to ruffle some feathers.
Speaker 2:And then I hear whoever is at the chair say hurry up, come on, move. It's like this is not Jesus-centered disagreeing spaces right.
Speaker 3:Right, Well, let me throw something out there Just as we talk about this. You know I'm the guy that has tried to build bridges. Yeah, that's great. I have that reputation because, I mean, I walked onto the Fort Wayne campus.
Speaker 3:I've brought a gathering there to celebrate the Fort Wayne campus, to celebrate their faculty, their students and the like. I'm trying to do it again. I'm having a hard time. I'm telling you right now if you'd like to be a part of Friends of the Fort, we're looking next end of March, beginning of April, prior to Easter, because of the Fort. We're looking next end of March, beginning of April, prior to Easter, because lateness and all that of Easter looking to do that again, getting guys to come along just to get to know your brothers in Christ.
Speaker 3:And I love going to the Fort Wayne Seminary. It's one of my favorite places in the Lutheran Church, missouri Synod now. But my son is the one who pointed out to me. He said Dad, you're one of the most conservative people I know, but in your own church body there are those who view you as liberal and that's insane. I mean it's utterly insane because these are people who've never talked with me. Uh, as I've gotten to know folks and I've been the guy reaching out, I've been the guy that has intentionally tried to find pathways to have conversation, well then we find we're not all that dissimilar from one another.
Speaker 3:I've said this about our synodical leadership in general. This is not of the current regime. I'm going to go back to probably the 1960s and if you look at it, we're like a pendulum. So when one person gets elected, all of a sudden everything starts looking like that person. Well, what does it do?
Speaker 3:It makes the other side suspicious. They're left out. You're leaving great leadership, you're leaving great talent, you're leaving great wisdom and intellect out of the leadership matrix to make the Senate a better place. And if you're not in the right clubhouse, you're not even considered. I've been nominated countless times for synodical things, never won a vote and if I get nominated I will not let my name stand again. I'm out, I'm done. I just don't want to waste my time and energy in a system that has already cast me aside. It's not healthy. There's that great book, the Team of Rivals, about Abraham Lincoln and his cabinet. We don't have that in the synod and if we did, we probably would be a better place, a healthier place, maybe a little more contentious at times at meetings, but good tension as we grow to learn from each other.
Speaker 2:I think that's what's missing in the model. I really do, I, yeah, I couldn't, I can't disagree and I'm praying for it's going to require humility, encourage confidence in our identity in Jesus, and I don't know who's listening and what leadership role you have in said synod. Office. One I want you to know, jeff and I are praying for you. You have been put there by God for a reason and I want to believe you have the best intentions, to recognize you exist to serve the local church. And then three I'm praying you have the courage to engage all leaders at all different levels, in all different contexts in the Lutheran Church, missouri Synod today. That is the only way we're going to move closer. That three is going to become a five and it will take time It'll take probably generations, to be quite honest of humble, courageous conversation with pastors, caring for pastors in diverse contexts in our circuits.
Speaker 2:That's really the grassroots, that's where it has to start. Us modeling. That's on brand loving challenge to you is go get to know those brothers. Right, if the circuit meeting isn't happening, you set the circuit, jeff. You know you can. You't happening, you set the circuit, jeff. You have a lot of influence there in that context and I promise to do the same here in my context as well, and I pray the same spirit moves to all different offices in the Lutheran Church Missouri Synod. We're at time, bro. This was a good it flew this time flew. I'm grateful for you praying for your ministry there in Asheville that the joy of Jesus would continue on in your fourth quarter. Man, do not give up. Finish strong.
Speaker 3:That's what we say.
Speaker 2:Finish strong brother.
Speaker 3:Amen.
Speaker 2:This is Lead Time Hot Topic Friday. We promise to have another Hot Topic conversation next Friday. Please join us. Sharon is caring and it's a good day, and the spirit of the living Jesus lives in you. Go and make it a great day. Thanks so much, jeff.
Speaker 1:Thank you. You've been listening to Lead Time, a podcast of the Unite Leadership Collective. The ULC's mission is to collaborate with the local church to discover, develop and deploy leaders through biblical Lutheran doctrine and innovative methods To partner with us in this gospel message. Subscribe to our channel, then go to theuniteleadershiporg to create your free login for exclusive material and resources and then to explore ways in which you can sponsor an episode. Thanks for listening and stay tuned for next week's episode.