Lead Time
Lead Time
Michigan District President David Davis on the State of the LCMS in Michigan and Beyond
How can we lead lives of true significance and unity in our vocations, whether in pastoral roles or everyday professions?
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Reverend David Davis, the district president of the Lutheran Church Missouri Synod (LCMS) in Michigan, joins us to unpack these profound themes. David shares his journey and proactive efforts in supporting Concordia University Ann Arbor, highlighting the critical importance of unity within the LCMS, even in the face of suspicion and criticism. His story is a testament to leading with grace and fostering a community rooted in collaboration and shared mission.
In this episode, we dive into the evolving role of Concordia Universities in shaping leaders for both church and secular fields. David and I discuss the pressing need for robust Lutheran theological education that prepares students to be missionaries in their professions, whether in business, law, or medicine. We explore the critical balance between developing church workers and equipping all believers for ministry and service, reflecting on the broader mission embraced by many Concordia University presidents. This conversation sheds light on the future of Christian leadership and the demand for mission-oriented colleges.
Lastly, we explore the multifaceted nature of pastoral leadership and the evolving role of lay leaders within the church. David offers insights into the physical and spiritual demands of pastoral work, advocating for disciplined self-care and innovative training programs for lay leaders. We touch on the potential of distance learning to meet the growing demand for pastoral leadership in small communities and emphasize the importance of district-wide prayer and collaboration in spreading the gospel. Join us for an inspiring discussion on leadership, significance, and the power of unity in advancing God's kingdom.
Join financial expert Ralph Estep, Jr - Daily tips for balancing your faith and finances.
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Welcome to Lead Time, Tim Allman, here with Jack Calberg. It's a beautiful day. The monsoon rains have actually hit and I know rains are going through the Midwest as well. We pray. The righteous reign of God and His love for you, known in the person and work of Jesus, is just filling your heart with great, great passion and the privilege, If you're in a leadership role, if you're called and ordained, or you're just a lay leader seeking to be faithful and proclaim the gospel in your various vocations. Man, we have a treat for you today Before we get to our guest, Jack. How are you doing, man?
Speaker 2:I'm doing well. Like we said, big rains here in Arizona, so in addition to being super hot now, it's also super humid.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's great. Yeah, a hundred degrees and about 40, 50% humidity. It's delightful, it's a sweat box. Anyway, what a joy to have Reverend David Davis with us today. He is the district president in the great state of Michigan and the wonderful district in the LCMS of Michigan. You guys have been leaders. Shout out to Dave Meyer and his leadership back in the day and I'm still connected to that brother Still getting after it with the gospel. But you've been in your role now, david, for the past two years. You had a number of years in the parish serving.
Speaker 1:He also is the author of a great book came out about four years ago. If you can't see it, it's called Toward Significance. Toward Significance a guide for pastoring well, and it's really a book about wisdom, pastoral wisdom. It's like a book of Proverbs, if you will, for pastoring well over the years. So this is going to be great. Talk about the word. We're going to get to the Concordia University, ann Arbor stuff here in short order, but let's start a little bit higher. Talk about how you measure and mark David a ministry of significance. Thanks for hanging with us, brother.
Speaker 3:Yeah, glad to be here, and we had some rain too. I got tickets for the ball game later. Fortunately, the rain is moving out and I'll get on the ball game. There you go.
Speaker 3:Actually, I got stuck on this idea of significance back reading maybe it's Bob Buford's book Halftime From Success to Significance. In his view, success was making a lot of money. Once you do that, then you go do something that really matters, and I think about that with significance, leading a life of significance, one that really matters. But a thing that I looked at with that is really significance in the word is the word sign, and that a sign signifies something else. A sign stands in for something else, like a stop sign stands in for someone being there and saying stop, and so to lead a sign for somebody else that in us, people would see Jesus.
Speaker 3:And whether you're a pastor, whether you're a teacher, whether you're a homemaker, whether you're a whatever, a life of significance is a life where you are a signpost for somebody else to see Jesus. You are a signpost for somebody else to see Jesus, and so I think about that. With a pastoral office I mean that's what I was writing about that I think everybody wants to be a great pastor, a significant pastor. Well, what does that mean? Is it the size of the steeple, Is it the number of people in the congregation, or is it that somehow, people, whoever they are, however many they are, they're seeing Jesus in you? So that's the idea behind the title and behind my thinking.
Speaker 1:I love it and I can't wait to get to the book. You've written a couple times in our interactions in written form F-W-I-W, and for the life of me, david, I've not been able to figure out. What in the world does that acronym forward with the work? I don't. I have no idea. So tell us what FWIW? I've seen it in some of your writing.
Speaker 3:Wait, I'm the old guy. You guys are the hip guys. I know I'm not very hip. I hope it means for what it's worth.
Speaker 1:Okay, all right, for what it's worth. There we go. It's worth a lot, the book is worth a lot, so thank you for what it's worth, so hilarious.
Speaker 1:Okay, so let's get into and hopefully a little bit of this levity can be in our spirit as we talk about the Concordia University Ann Arbor struggles. I talked to May Keller a couple weeks ago on the struggles so we don't need to rehash a lot of it, but I do know you've played a significant role in raising money and since February this has been occupying a lot of your time as district president there in Michigan and thank you for being engaged with it. You led a network of volunteers in the district trying to work on a roadmap for autonomy and in your recent letter you wrote that rather than being received in a spirit of collaboration, you experienced suspicion and criticism. That's very, very disheartening to me. And then you want to be a part of a. In your letter you also said a Psalm 133 community. So give a little bit of the color about the work you've been doing and what you're praying for in terms of being a Psalm 133 community.
Speaker 3:Yeah, psalm 133 is how good and pleasant it is when brothers dwell together in unity, and I don't think it's any secret. We haven't always seen tons of that in our Lutheran Church Missouri Synod. And when the situation at Concordia, ann Arbor started to unfold, I kind of wanted to do two things. I wanted to not be silent about it and just let things develop and fall apart and people have said, well, we didn't even know about this school and the next thing you know, and so I didn't want that to happen here at Concordia and Arbor. So I wanted to speak out, speak up about the situation, make sure people were aware of it, especially here in the district. That's where I have some purview. I don't have a lot of nationwide opportunity for communication, but I did want to speak into it in a Psalm 133 kind of way. You know, let's talk about this, let's reason together. I worked hard to not be calling people names and not be judging people's motives. I didn't do any of that perfectly, of course. I thought, well, let's talk about this, let's think on it, let's be together. I sought to communicate broadly and so, with the Board of Regents, the chairman had asked about or had asked me to, well, come up with a Michigan plan. And so I called a network of people together and we put together this roadmap and it wasn't supposed to be a super detailed. Here's this plan, this plan, this plan because the Board of Regents had all of the data, all of the detail. But this was more well. If you do it this way, you can put this piece of information here, that step there, kind of maybe more of a puzzle where the puzzle pieces could go. I still am convinced it didn't have to end up where it's going to end up. It's going to become some kind of a micro school. Details are being released.
Speaker 3:At the beginning people said, well, they're going to close Ann Arbor. And I'll tell you they never really said we're going to close Ann Arbor. There were financial issues. I agree that there were financial issues, but how to solve those and what the timetable on it's? Certainly, from my view, from what I saw, didn't have to happen in the manner and in the direction it's going in. It could have continued on as a flourishing university.
Speaker 3:So we've been trying to work together, but again, it's clear that it's not going that way and I was going to say really the messaging was not that they were going to close the university but, as it became clear, what I said was well, what it's going to be is not even close to what it was. We have full university life at Concordia, ann Arbor 1,100, 1,300 students and they're going to do away with all kinds of athletics, academics, and it's going to be I think the number I heard was 300 students. So it'll still be here, but it's not even close to what it was and it certainly won't be the kind of world impacting, community, impacting, state of Michigan impacting kind of university that it was. It'll be, you know, more for a few people that are going to go into, I suppose, church work of some sort, but not that idea.
Speaker 3:I mean it was a thriving university, flourishing kids being trained up for vocation, whether nursing or teaching or business or physical therapy. It's just a whole different vision. So still want to do what we can to see where things might go. God is able, and if not, I mean we still have to raise up leaders. That's a key thing here in the Michigan district. We want to focus on mission, we want to focus on leadership development and if we don't really have Concordia, ann Arbor in our bag of tricks, here in the district.
Speaker 2:We have to think about how else are we going to be forming leaders, and we'll see what God has in mind going to be forming leaders and we'll see what God has in mind, David, for those people who are not insiders in this process. Right, Sometimes governance can get a little bit opaque for people like not necessarily understanding how certain things connect together within LCMS world. Right, so you're leading a district and within the district we've got a Concordia University and it seems to be making decisions that may be running contrary to what the district wants to see happen. Yeah, I think that's a really problematic situation right now. I know there may be governance issues why that's happening that way. There may be economic realities as to why that's happening that way, but just the fact that that that kind of thing happens seems a little distressing to me as somebody who doesn't really understand the governance of the situation from the beginning I was clear that, uh, the michigan district as an entity had absolutely no authority in
Speaker 3:this decision-making process. It's the Board of Regents of Concordia, wisconsin and Ann Arbor. I was reminded of that a few times but certainly I thought we had influence and I think as a decision-making process, as a change and I've said this other places as change agents and I've said this other places as change agents kind of the first thing the organization did was to disaffect all of the stakeholders, to discount the congregations in the Michigan district and the support that thousands of people across our district have given over the last many years and really excluded because the Board of Regents and the leadership had a plan and it looked like they were going to work that plan, no matter what the stakeholders are.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean it was very clear when the number was given that it was only 2.5 million, that we were short with Ann Arbor. And then you had raised, the district had raised. How much Over 3.5 million, isn't that right, president Davis?
Speaker 3:Yeah, we had a drive that was, I think, finally $3.8 million in pledges that we gathered. That was given to the district and then the district's plan was to help underwrite the shortfall in this next year, given a couple of stipulations. And this is money that the board of directors, our board, has responsibility over. That We've made commitment to the donors. If it looks like Concordia is not what they were giving to, or that Concordia is going in a direction that they weren't supporting, well then we have some other ways that we'll redirect that money in consultation, in consultation with the donors redirect that money in consultation, in consultation with the donors?
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely. It's very unfortunate that decisions were made prior to going to the community. As I look at this story, it's very evident that there were closed door meetings and that the plan was in place. Because if it were more open-ended, if we were exploring, we're coming with this need we really want to see Concordia continue, all of its programs continue. Then, man, that gift of $3.8 million to solve at least a short-term crisis at least gives us more time to work together with the various stakeholders. But the die had been cast and we're praying. It's never too late for repentance to take place. We're praying for a change of heart and it really is to get higher level.
Speaker 1:There definitely are some within the Lutheran Church Missouri Synod who see our Concordias solely having a stake in raising up church workers only. And I went. I'm a Concordia Seward guy and I'm like leaders raised up for the church and the world. Various vocations, like don't we want all of our wonderful young people, business leaders, doctors, lawyers, whatever you know folks, nurses don't we want them having fantastic Lutheran theology as they head out as missionaries in these various vocations? The answer is obviously yes.
Speaker 1:So I don't get where this vision of taking all the concordias and turning them into leadership development factories, which sounds strange for me to say, because we're a leadership development group here, you know, but we want to raise up leaders for the church and for the world. It's never an either or it's a both and, but it feels like there's this very, very. And our schools are mission oriented too. You bring these young people in and they get to hear the gospel, they get to hear great Lutheran theology. Yeah, it's just unfortunate that our schools have become way more covenant and a certain type of leader development centers. I think that is the vision from some in Synod and it's not a vision that's shared by, I know, many of the Concordia University presidents. They don't have that vision. Shout out to Michael Thomas and what he's doing at Concordia University, irvine. So any closing thoughts, though, to the need to train up workers in various vocations, president Davis.
Speaker 3:Yeah, right on what you're saying Exactly. I suppose there was a time that our Concordias were there to raise up pastors and teachers and we'd send the rest of our kids either out onto the farm or to the state school, which was a lot more amenable to what we believe, teach and confess. But now we need our own universities like this to raise up the business people, the nurses it's not just about professional church workers nurses to go in and work in the University of Michigan Medical Center, one of the premier institutions in the world. Talk about an impact, talk about mission and ministry. And that was what it was all about.
Speaker 2:And again, we look to God, we'll see where it goes, but it's still there is because of the time that we're living in right now, there is a tremendous demand for unapologetically Christian colleges that are also very missional and eager to equip people into everyday vocations but have that curriculum centered in Christ. There's a huge demand for that, and if anybody doesn't think so, then you just have to come to our backyard and look at Grand Canyon University, because that school is bursting at the seams and it is, if not already, about to be the largest university in the country right they're unapologetically Christian.
Speaker 2:They're very missional and they see themselves as serving every single type of vocation in America right. And there's a demand for it Because of the dysfunction that's going on in many of the secular schools right now. Now's the time to strike. You know what I mean. Like from a marketing perspective, like there's never been a better time, I think, to be in this kind of industry. Yeah.
Speaker 1:For those that have vision.
Speaker 3:I got to visit out to Irvine earlier this year and to see the great things that are going on there and this is before the Concordia Ann Arbor stuff was going down and I thought, wow, you know, concordia Ann Arbor is doing great More of that kind of thing. We'll just go to a different level. We'll just keep going seeing some of the things that's going on out there. But, yeah, it's a different direction.
Speaker 1:Hey, president Davis, the different direction, I think, is the laity, the priesthood of all believers and kind of this extra high emphasis on the office of holy ministry, which I love and care for. But we're called to equip the saints for love and good deeds. You speak about a need to return to a theology of the gospel and to speak clearly around some of the trends toward a clergy class that you've experienced. Anything to say there?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think exactly that the Missouri Synod was set up to be a balance between clergy and laity. And the way things are working out, especially you know you talked earlier about the bureaucracy and the more bureaucratic things become, the more it's run by insiders, and this is I'm not casting aspersions it's how stuff works, and so it ends up being led by professional clergy and they know the bylaws and the bureaucracy and it often that kind of set set up will cut out the grassroots. The local and in this case really the laity get cut out because, well, they're intimidated maybe by the degrees and the training that the clergy have. And so I just kind of my whole thing is the church moves forward. Kind of my whole thing is the church moves forward in the local community, in a local congregation.
Speaker 3:You know, if anyone doesn't have hope for the church, you might be looking in the wrong direction. First, you want to look at Jesus and second, you want to look at your own local congregation and the mission that God has for you, because that's where the kingdom moves forward, and so we need to engage the laity, isn't this right? Most mission movements are led by the laity, and so if we, I want to do that here in the district really engage laity and train up pastors to serve them. Well, that's kind of behind the book and the ideas that I have in there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. So let's, let's get into the book. What led you to kind of write the book? I think it's awesome. I know you were encouraged just so many wonderful, wonderful words of wisdom but it's an honest it's. It's kind of a raw book. I mean I love that you just get super specific. I mean you've got chapters on character and you've got points of reference on hygiene. Like every, every first year, seminarian should definitely check out towards significance and you're. It's very raw in that you say, man, there's going to be, there's going to be wounds, there's going to be struggles. This is not an easy calling. Let's start there. As you just think of pastoral ministry in general, what makes it so? And you've got a section where you talk about all the different kind of tasks and skills that a pastor is kind of expected maybe unrealistically so in many respects to have all of these gifts. What's the hardest part, as you just look at being a pastor now, especially through the lens of being a district president?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think the hardest part is the complexity, all of the different things and all the different skill sets you need to have. I would think about you're doing a preschool chapel and then you've got to do a pre-marriage counseling of some sort, and then you're going to go to the hospital and then you've got to teach this class to junior high kids and then you got an adult class. You have to have a 15 to 20 minute professional speech. You know sermon ready, and then you've got board meetings and all of that could be in the same day.
Speaker 3:That's right, and you know, whether you call it juggling different plates or figuring out a Rubik's Cube, which I could never figure out, and maybe other jobs are that way too. This is the only stuff I've ever done, but I just think that the complexity of it, the different tasks, and each one needs to be done well. Tasks, and each one needs to be done well. I talked to a guy not too long ago and he'd been out of the ministry and he can't wait to get back in and he said you know, I really miss conducting the liturgy and distributing communion and all I could think of is dude, that's. There's so much more to being a pastor than those couple of things. And I think a lot of times guys get into it saying I saw what he did on Sunday and I could get. I'd like to do that and it's a good thing, but there are so much more detail and tasks and it's complicated.
Speaker 1:It really is.
Speaker 2:It's one depending on your church. You know one to five hours out of the week right where you get to do that special role, but there's other things to get done in the week right. And ministry is not something that just happens in a few hours in a week. It's something that really should be a vocation that really takes up the entire work week.
Speaker 3:And you have to do those other things well earlier in the week. So you can be heard during those one to five hours.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:So let's talk pastoral leadership characteristics. Let's just nail it down If you're looking at a healthy pastor who's leading a healthy team and then congregation going on mission, what are three high-level characteristics that you pray for that pastor to have?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I use this tagline. I mean it's in the Bible. I didn't come up with it, but it came on during 2020. We were going to fix our eyes on Jesus in 2020 because it was going to be a great year, and then you know what happened in 2020. But I think one of the great characteristics of a pastor is he has to have his eyes on Jesus and I encourage guys to read through the Bible the whole thing every year. I think that keeps our eyes fixed on Jesus to be fed in the Word. You know the Word, the confessions. But early on this is kind of a confession of mine Early on I decided I'd probably not become an expert on lots of Christian history, but I thought what I'd do is I'd read the Bible rigorously and let the Bible be the word for me, the power for me, and I'd also read widely about things that are going on in the world and bring the two together.
Speaker 3:So anyways, characteristics to be in the word. I think another characteristic is truthfulness. That's one of the little things I wrote on. You have to be a man of integrity. Don't over promise and under deliver. You should do kind of the opposite. I think another characteristic I got this from really my mentor. He got it from John the Baptist, where John said he must increase and I must decrease. I think CS Lewis said nobody is less humble than the man that thinks he's humble. I think he said something like that. Humble than the man that thinks he's humble. I think he said something like that. But there has to be a humility in the pastoral office that it isn't about you, it's about Jesus and those other people being connected to him.
Speaker 2:No longer I, but Christ in us, right or Christ in me. I think that what blew me away. I just recently learned because I don't know much about languages and stuff that I is ego right, no longer. Ego Isn't that wild.
Speaker 3:Yeah, hey, David go ahead. I was going to say, maybe another characteristic is I don't know what the word phrase is maybe self-care you know, some physical disciplines. It is surprisingly rigorous physically to be a pastor and you don't have to be a bodybuilder, but I think you do have to make sure you have a decent diet and exercise regimen to be able to serve with energy.
Speaker 1:Hey, man, now you're talking my language. This is good Humility and self-care. The body keeps the score. Pastoral ministry is very, very stressful. When we work out, actually when we do strength training, I'm on a kick man. I'm talking to my dad, anybody if you're over 40, and you're not doing strength training, you're really missing out, because the all the research connected to to moving your body, even if it's just body weight, and mental health is so, so interconnected. And then, obviously, to double down on your need for a healthy, healthy diet reject processed food at every front, please. It is very, very destructive to our brains as well, and we need to be present with people. And if we're walking around with chronic stress and we're doing ourselves no favors in moving our bodies and monitoring what we're putting into our bodies because our bodies are made of what we eat literally, we're just not going to be as present to love and care and listen and lead as we would like you also talk about.
Speaker 1:There can be a tendency in pastoral ministry to be lazy. I'm sorry to just be blunt. Right, you made a statement that pastors and churches that are growing are working very hard. I think that's true. We're disciplined around our day. Give a clarion call for pastors to stop taking in so much external stuff. Start reading, you move into reading and when I read, man, I want to share consistently what I'm and it shapes how I teach and lead and all those preach, all those things. So give a clarion call for pastors having a disciplined work ethic, david.
Speaker 3:Yeah, we've already been talking. It's hard work to be a pastor and so I think pastors have to work hard. I mean, that's not the same thing. I think we have to work hard. I like to say we're saved by grace, through faith, but God had to work like mad to give us the grace. The grace is free to us, but he worked hard to give it to us. And in the same way, now as we are the body of Christ, we have to work hard to give grace into the community. Grace is free to them, but it takes effort, it takes thinking, it takes strategizing, it takes building coalitions. It's hard work to do that.
Speaker 3:Ministry. You know the 40-hour work week is a somewhat recent. I grew up in Flint area and unions and all of that, and I think unions certainly had their place. But this idea that you know we're going to work just, you know, 30 hours, 40 hours If a pastor's working 80 hours he probably needs to reconsider that. But it's going to be 50, 55.
Speaker 3:A friend of mine once said the difference between a job and a profession is about 15 hours a week and I'm not sure we're always prepared for that. We're always prepared for that. As part of that I think I also say when you work, be all in, you know, turn off the other distractions, don't be doing eight things at once. I like to say about work get in, get it done and then get on. There's time for family, there's time for other things. There's time for other things. Maybe a thing that impacts our work life is that we need to have a clearer idea of eternity, in that there are some things that I didn't do or I didn't pursue because I figured I can do that in heaven if I still want to do such a thing that we can't buy into, well, you can do it all.
Speaker 3:you can have it to do such a thing that we can't buy into. Well, you can do it all. You can have it all here in this world. That's kind of an American thought. I don't think that's a biblical thought. And so there are maybe all kinds of activities or hobbies you might not do, and I don't mean all work and no play. But we focus on our family, we focus on our ministry and sort those other things out, but not be too anxious about. Well, I need time for this little thing to do and that little thing to do, so focus focus.
Speaker 1:You said the difference between a hobby and idolatry could be very, very close. The margins are very close, potentially on something that becomes very, very all-consuming. So, yeah, let's watch ourselves. For those of you who are listening, you're like, why are they maybe jumping on each other a little bit in terms of speaking? Our video is lagging right now pretty significantly and so there's a little bit of a pause. Be patient with us as we get into some other wonderful, wonderful opportunities and conversations. So the Michigan district has been kind of a pioneer in collaborative leadership development your deacon training program and now your partnership with Kairos University and training up lay leaders. You guys have been pioneering in the Michigan district for some time.
Speaker 1:Talk about the opportunities we have for both lay leadership development and pastoral formation. Moving forward, because on this conversation, in this podcast, we have talked about the need for pulpits being filled exponentially, and 700 plus pulpits are empty. That number is getting even higher. Shout out to Lyman Stone. Lyman Stone is a demographer who's come out with data recently If you follow him on Twitter where he says there's exponentially more than 700. I'm not even going to throw out that number, but there are lots of pulpits in need of preachers, but more than that, there are lots of vocations in need of Lutheran leaders carrying their faith winsomely into the marketplace. So anything more to say about leadership, development and pastoral formation, david.
Speaker 3:Yeah, our education guy. As he's talking about schools and what's going on with schools and principals, he always says it all falls to leadership. And are we raising up leaders? Are we training people to work with other people? Are we training people to figure out how to get to work on projects that get to a conclusion? Are we working with people to help them, especially in our context? And is there another to focus on Jesus and the mission and how we're reaching those who aren't here yet? And so, yeah, leadership across the spectrum, whether it's pastors, whether it's laity.
Speaker 3:Actually, you know, I've done this little book, I've got a similar set of materials for lay people in a congregation that a pastor could work with. You know, 15, 10, 15 lay people and work through some of these same things to think about, to collaborate and to grow, sharpen their skills. But yeah, this goes way back. There was a thing called Michigan Lutheran Ministry Institute here and that was back in the 80s and that was the precursor, I think, to a movement to train up lay people for responsibility in congregations. Pastors have to do some things, but pastors don't have to do everything.
Speaker 1:I've experienced so much joy in just that, david, in having a congregation where there are a whole bunch of learners and we're in partnership with Luther House of Study and some of these learners could be offered to the church future for pastoral ministry. Other of them are just saying you know what? I just want to go deeper. I've been following Jesus like my whole life and this Luther guy and and the way systematically you guys understand the scriptures is just really, really great. So I want to get under the hood, if you will like.
Speaker 1:Like there are way more of those folks who have been sitting in the pews, I think, especially as the days have come along, where there's more secularism and there's more nuance in the public conversation and there may be more anger and they don't know exactly how to position themselves, think about themselves in the world, as the world is just spiraling, not necessarily in a Jesus direction. I think there's a big time need right now for lay leaders to go deeper and they're waiting on districts and pastors. They're not going to form the programs or whatever. They're waiting on us to say, hey, what does this exactly look like? What are some tests we could run in terms of theological formation? And, just to be blunt, we don't live in a Lutheran Church Missouri Synod context right now where this approach is looked upon with curiosity. There's way more skeptic skepticalness and that's not a word.
Speaker 1:There we go Suspicion, yeah, condemnation, about it. Like, give me a break, this is the call. This is a call to equip the saints to carry out their gospel ministry. So anything more to say to that and even cast vision for us there, president Davis, moving forward, of what could be if districts like Michigan, like the Pacific Southwest District, said, no, let's pour some gasoline on this.
Speaker 3:Yeah, we want to move full speed ahead with our deacon training program. We're working on an evangelist training program. I am very encouraged with the Synod and the SMP and the alternate route. It'd be interesting if that could be expanded in some way to raise up pastors and distant learning. I just don't see our small churches being in a position to have a pastor that's been trained for four years and he's coming in and looking for a career sort of thing. But this is a small town. But could they raise up a layman from within, get them trained to be a pastor and serve in that community? So I think, more broad-based training for pastors.
Speaker 3:The oldest church here in the Michigan district which isn't Frankenmuth, by the way, I like to tell this story at St Thomas out in the country, out here by Ann Arbor, the founding pastor was a missionary and he was raising up other mission starts and one of the guys that he raised up was his kid and the history is that he took his 16-year-old son aside, trained him for two years and ordained him. 16-year-old son aside, trained them for two years and ordained them. That's our heritage here. I'm not trying to be that chaotic, but training pastors I think we have to think about other ways that we might be doing that and setting lay people free. I wrote a little note for our district. I said don't wait for a pastor. Yeah, there are some things that only a pastor can do. But the lay people can be at the vanguard of ministry in their community and we need to make sure we have training programs for them.
Speaker 2:It is absolutely feasible to identify people within the local church that are respected, that are seen as people that have the character to do ministry, and it's absolutely feasible, technically feasible.
Speaker 2:We've seen it already happening. You know where people can get online MDiv programs and be equipped to preach really, really well to a community and actually see those churches grow. Is that going to be the case for every single person that goes through that program? Absolutely not. The same thing is true for a residential program. Right, and don't get us wrong, we love the residential program and it is often absolutely the right choice for a lot of young men who know that that's their calling. That's probably where they should go. But there is a massive pool of people who are, let's just say, are looking for significance, as you brought up, that have already in a sense succeeded in a career or maybe succeeded in starting a business, and they're looking for the next challenge. And I don't think the invitation for these people is to sell everything and relocate your family for five years or however long that's going to be, when they already have established credibility within a community and they can serve that community and we can deliver the theological training to them in their context.
Speaker 3:Yeah, we have right now 55 pastors in our district that were trained through the specific ministry pastor, which is that kind of distant learning. Without those fellas, we'd have some small churches that are empty. Without those fellas, we'd have some small churches that are empty. Without those fellas, we'd have some large churches that are understaffed. And it's not the path for everybody, but certainly it and whatever else might come along with it. Those are things we need to be examining as we move forward.
Speaker 1:Yeah, for sure. And the clergy class If he's ordained, he's ordained SMP or whatever. I think we ought to give them degrees in time. This is something I'd love to explore, because they're rostered but they haven't received a degree, and a degree actually matters in various contexts. So yeah, praying for just open hearts, curious hearts, for all those who are in leadership in the LCMS and specifically the Pastoral Formation Committee. So last question this has been great, president Davis what do you pray? Characterizes the Lutheran Church in 10 years from now?
Speaker 3:I hope, I pray that we are characterized by reaching people who aren't connected to Jesus yet, and for that to happen, I think in 10 years we'd have to look a lot different than what we look like. Certainly we need to think about different people, groups than what we are typically reaching. We're trying to work with immigrant ministers the EIIT program here so I would hope in 10 years the name of Jesus is trusted in by more and more people in and around our congregations.
Speaker 1:Amen, and it's going to start in the local church and I think the tethering of a district that's on mission, like the Michigan district, is so, so necessary today. So I didn't get it. I'd love for you to boast in the Lord, in what the Lord is doing in the Michigan district as we close. What is he up to?
Speaker 3:I think we are building Psalm 133 here in the Michigan district. You mentioned my buddy, Dave Meyer. He's a great friend of mine. He's done a great job here in the district. Bill Hoseman before him I'm having lunch with him soon. John Hines and I think it's been a congregation or a district that's been pretty united through the years. We have guys a little more this way or that way, but we are working together here in the Michigan district to fix our eyes on Jesus and have other people's eyes on him as well.
Speaker 1:I love it. I love it. If people want to connect with you, President Davis, how can they do so?
Speaker 3:But if people want to connect with you, president Davis, how can they do so? They can email me at daviddavis at michigandistrictorg, or at my ddavis at towardssignificancecom.
Speaker 1:And if you want to hit up and get the book and follow the blog towardssignificancecom slash blog, it hits you up. I know you're producing a lot of wonderful, wonderful leadership insights consistently. Thanks for staying engaged. Thanks for leading with kindness and courage, praying for Concordia University, ann Arbor. Praying for the Michigan District. Praying for creativity, unity that inspires us to reach people, people from all different walks of life, with the gospel and, once the Holy Spirit comes into their life, man to fan into flame, that calling, that new baptismal calling that they have to be disciples who multiply disciples.
Speaker 1:This has been so much fun. This is Lead Time. Sharing is caring. Our community on YouTube is growing. If you take us in there, please follow us there. Lots of comments there. I will see what kind of comments we get on the conversation today. If anybody listens to this and you're like angry, I don't know how you could listen to a podcast like this and get angry. We're simply trying to share what we know to be true in our respective contexts and praying for a new day of collaboration with all different types of leaders and all different types of communities reaching people with the gospel. It's a good day. Go and make it a great day, president Davis, jack, wonderful work. God bless friends. Thank you.