Lead Time
Lead Time
An Apology, the Prior Approval Process, and Healthy Communication with Rev. Dr. Scott Seidler
What if the key to resolving church conflicts lies in a simple shift towards transparency and understanding? We confront past misunderstandings around the prior approval process within our synod, with Scott offering an apology to President Harrison and other leaders. The importance of clear communication becomes apparent as we extend an invitation to President Harrison, aiming to foster deeper connections and cooperation.
Navigating the complexities of church leadership isn't easy, especially when balancing the diverse needs of our congregations. This episode sheds light on the critical role of empathy and effective dialogue in maintaining a Christ-centered community amidst organizational pressures. We explore the potential for dysfunction within human organizations and underscore the value of repentance for harmonious growth in faith. Looking ahead, we embrace change and the challenges that come with it, finding solace in the belief that the Lord will guide us through these transformative times.
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This is Lead Time.
Speaker 2:Welcome to a special episode of Lead Time. Tim Allman here with my partner in the gospel in bringing the word in sacrament, the never-changing promises of Christ, crucified and risen from the dead, to people here in the Valley of Phoenix. Scott and Ben Haupt were on an episode a couple three months ago and we're actually gonna first start out, before we get into some of the kind of controversial for lack of better controversial talking points that we had. Just what's giving you joy right now, scott, and how you doing buddy. Thanks for hanging out.
Speaker 3:No, you're welcome. Hey, you know what's giving me joy right now, scott, and how you doing, buddy, thanks for hanging out. No, you're welcome. Hey, you know, what's giving me joy right now is yesterday we had an old fashioned congregational potluck and, you know, we worship on two different campuses here in Scottsdale and so we had a combined worship service of both our campuses and so we had a gob of, you know, younger families and we had a number of older adults and the kids are running all over the place and it was just a reminder that from generation to generation, god is faithful. And we sang, you know, come ye thankful people, come, and the goodness of God and living hope, by Phil Wickham, and of course, we ended with the common doxology and that's just beautiful to hear. And four part, five, six, 12 part, harmony. I mean I don't know where I was singing, but it's good, it's good. What about you, brother? What's going on in your world?
Speaker 2:Oh man, we kicked off a world vision. You've heard that kind of flip the script of chosen, where a number of your families, rather than choosing a child, let the child choose you, and so I think we had 70, some families that said yes to have their picture be taken, and now our team is actually three of our team are in Guatemala and in a couple of days, our families. It's going to be a live kind of watch chosen party and then the big reveal back here at all of our campuses on November 24th. So that puts a little bit of a timestamp too in this conversation we're recording. We're hoping to get this out before the end of the month, to be sure, but it's November 18th today in the year of our Lord, 2024.
Speaker 2:And so the reason we're having this conversation is the clarity, misunderstanding, maybe the grayness of the prior approval conversation.
Speaker 2:There are some resolutions that are going around right now as we head into district conventions around trying to bring more transparency to what the prior approval process is.
Speaker 2:I actually dusted off my handbook from 2023, from the last Senate convention and you're kind of going through this. And again, as we've spoken about this, this is not against President Harrison or anyone else. This is what it is and I don't see exactly a prior approval kind of bullet point list. I see a lot of ways that we elect different leaders in synod and the way certain leaders are removed and congregations and pastors are removed, but I don't see a section that clearly outlines this is the prior approval process. So in the midst of that we're left with uncertainty and unfortunately, sometimes we put the worst construction on things rather than the best construction, and we're trying at lead time to build bridges of understanding and care with leaders at all types of levels. We know that leading a synod is a hard, hard thing. A lot of personalities hey, like Dr Seidler and Tim Allman they were speaking into things and we may not have all of the information.
Speaker 3:So with that, scott, give us more information. Since our conversation you know information technically that the way that I personally had characterized the prior approval process in our conversation with Ben was not accurate and in his opinion it brought some measure of slander or mistrust onto him as a person, our synod generally, and especially those who are involved in various prior approval processes. So I just wanted to, you know, take that at face value and receive that admonishment, you know and apologize, first of all for that, not my intention to mischaracterize was grateful for the way in which President Harrison has helped me understand again that there are multiple agencies, as he explained it, for prior approval. The Concordia University system oversees an aspect of the prior approval system and so I just want to correct the record.
Speaker 3:I'm not sure where all of the details are on prior approval method or process, but what I do know and I have come to believe is that the way that I kind of baldly or broadly described it was not accurate to what is actually happening in terms of prior approval in our synod's administration and as a result of that may have made it seem like there are nefarious forces at work in this prior approval process. So just to apologize, you know and acknowledge that to President Harrison, to the Senate at large Obviously he is answerable to our Senate and then, of course, to the prior approval panelists who themselves have a responsibility within the system. If I've slandered or in any way undercut your integrity, certainly want to acknowledge that. Certainly don't want to do that. This is not personal, should not be personal. It should be topical and, as you mentioned, tim, an opportunity for us to clarify that in convention by way of convention resolutions and other appropriate administrative actions.
Speaker 2:That's what I got. No, that's good. And, president Harrison, if you'd like to come on the podcast to give us a primer on how this works and where some of the because, as in any organization, we have areas of improvement and clarity, maybe things that are more in the gray, making them more black and white, and that's why policy and convention resolutions exist, because we're a church body, that's a work in progress. So the invitation is open for you to come on this, this, this podcast, for our audience to clear it up. And, as you were interacting with President Harrison and you even talk about, like a panel, what who makes up this panel? That? That is Because I know there's multiple layers. I get it, but you mentioned a panel. Can you even bring more insight into who that panel would be and how then decisions get made about who is or is not on the prior approval list list?
Speaker 3:I can and I can't write more. I can't. But what I understand is, you know there's not a single person, but what I understand is, you know there's not a single person, as President Harrison reminded me, there is not a single person who decides. You know prior approval, but that there is a committee system of sorts, in multiple. You know points of administrative authority within our synod. I understand Concordia University system.
Speaker 3:I think maybe there might be something in the council precedents, I don't know, but it is an opportunity for us, yeah, to get greater clarity on it. You know. I just think everybody wants to know, when someone does not pass muster through a prior approval process, what is the reasoning for that? You know what is the basis not to approve someone. Is it perceived theology, is it perceived administrative incompetency or lack of experience? I think that's the gray area that you know we could have and should have open conversations about that are charitable to the person and, as I, you know, we, we could have and should have open conversations about that that are charitable to the person and, and as I mentioned, not slanderous.
Speaker 2:Yep, no, I agree, and that's that's why we're doing this. We want to have open, honest conversations, uh, on lead time and and uh, really it's got. All we want, I think, by the spirit's power, are more people in heaven and less people in hell, if we really believe it's a real place, that the days are short and we must be about the Father's work, for the time is coming when we're not going to be able to work anymore. And this podcast is a part of one expression in the Lutheran Church Missouri Synod, where a number of different voices and there is politics involved here a number of different voices have not felt like they are welcome in our church body, very confessional, but we're on the mission edge. We're trying to launch new ministry to reach people with the gospel and that requires a different skill set.
Speaker 2:I was thinking, scott, around sociologically, love to get your take on this sociologically the difference in an introverted and maybe an academic church and how that inevitably and this is just history in the church how that kind of introversion and academic nature of the church then sometimes collides and doesn't play well with the extroverted, entrepreneurial, mission orientation characteristic in our church. And I think our conversation. It just serves as well. We can be at odds sometimes with one another trying to listen well and respect one another's role and how God made them and what their kind of unique perspective in the church is. Are we listening? Well, you could say across various channels in our church body and we're praying that we are. How would you kind of characterize kind of where we are right now in the LCMS introversion, extroversion, et cetera? Scott?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think there's a lot of reasons why people end up talking past each other. Right, and yes, you can go through. You know the personality types, the Myers-Briggs, you know the Enneagram. All those personality aspects make it difficult for us to to speak and live together in harmony.
Speaker 3:You know, here at Shepherd of the Desert I was joking this past weekend with my eight o'clockers, eight o'clock. You know, they're the stalwarts, they're the Lutherans, tried and true. They get up early. They don't want silly Scott sermons. They can take my sense of humor to a point, and uh. But they want, you know, they want really deep, studious, word confession doctrine. They want law, gospel, and uh. And then I joked and they wanted in 12 minutes. Hey, tim, guess what they did when I said you want all of that in 12 minutes? They applauded, they were in agreement and it was pretty funny when they did that too. We were applauding for a lot of things.
Speaker 3:But then, you know, you get to 930 or you get into my young families and they're trying to figure out how to raise kids, balance work life. The whole nine yards. Walk the dog, feed the cats, take care of aging parents. The whole nine yards. Walk the dog, feed the cats take care of aging parents and they're looking for biblical teaching, but they're also looking for a little help from the pulpit too. And so you know, it's easy to get caught crossways in the church different generations, different backgrounds, personality types. It is a sociological challenge and you know, we as pastors, as church leaders, we stand in the gap of all of those. You know, constellation of pressures. How do we honor all, be all things to all people, without losing sight of the one who stands, without question, at the center of the Lord, jesus Christ, delivered through word and sacrament ministry?
Speaker 2:That's it. That's it, hey. I mean, the way it gets articulated in your context is very similar to mine and I think it's a microcosm of synod in many respects is. I sent out an email recently because sometimes you can have a sense and I'm sure President Harrison has had this sense and district presidents, if you're any kind of ecclesiastical supervising, you get this sense like I don't think we're connecting well.
Speaker 2:I think there's too much gossip in this system. I think we're putting the worst construction on so-and-so's work and intent rather than knowing the full story. And so this is where family systems for me comes in knowing the full story. And so this is where family systems for me comes in the effectiveness or the dysfunction of triangles leading to triangulation. And so I sent out an email.
Speaker 2:You've probably sent out this email that says something to the point of do your job right, do your call like just stay in your lane, and when you're interacting with other people who are put the best construction on what they're doing, if you have a reason to say whoa, something's amiss, first you take it to that person and then, if that doesn't get it solved, then you take it to their supervisor. And in my, in our world. It's like, okay, if you and your supervisor can't work it out, then we have a talk, the three of us come together and we're going to figure it out together, but you moving your conversation to a soft, kind, empathetic host. Here's what happens when we do that when resolution hopefully reconciliation eventually comes, guess who? We often don't go back to tell that person that we shared the struggle with that.
Speaker 2:In your case, scott's not a bad guy, pastor. Scott's a great pastor. He's just trying to be just trying to be faithful, and I think this is to get back to the reason we're having this. This is just one of those ways that we're trying to bring a healthy dialogue into what can be a multi-layered, triangulated system, which is the Lutheran church Missouri Synod. Any final thoughts there, scott?
Speaker 3:Yeah, and you know, again, going to our confessional theology, any human organization is a triangulated, corrupted mess. So I always like to say when I make that overarching, you know, judgment, which comes from the scriptures, because we are by nature sinful and unclean, that nature persists in us. So, therefore, anything and everything we touch on this side of heaven is going to still be tainted by sin. We are simultaneously saint and sinner, as well as the institutions, so it is not slander, in a sense, to say that about the Lutheran Church, missouri Synod or about anything else that we endeavor to do in this world. The hope, though, is that, as we press through in a repentant, reconciling spirit with God, by the work of the Holy Spirit and with each other, those triangles of dysfunction get a little bit smaller, maybe a little bit more rounded on the three edges. Triangles have three edges right, three corners, yeah. So they get a little little rounded, little smaller, and, and we grow, in the grace and knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ, to be a more, more harmonious. You know striving after whatever is good and helpful. You know those admonitions of Paul from Philippians. So I just always want to be clear on that when we're critical of the LCMS or when we're critical of our own families or whatnot. There's a deep theology that is very Lutheran in that criticism and it's very natural to be there.
Speaker 3:If we are doing theology right, how to ensure you know, as I said at the beginning of the podcast, how to ensure that that doesn't buckle over into slander or puts on some person too much of a burden while relieving me sinfully of another kind of burden? I think that's where we've got to work it out. I'm grateful that I have the opportunity to just clarify that in this podcast and certainly pray for our leaders, president Harrison, our denominational leadership in the panels of prior approval and then, of course, our Lutheran Church, missouri Synod. We are the crown jewel. We believe in our confession that we are in the evangelical Lutheran Church, the visible church of Christ on earth. Those are huge words to be saying anywhere. It sounds presumptuous, but our doctrine, our teaching, our stance in the word of God is of such a kind that we have this treasure in jars of clay and we pray that God sustains us in these days as we continue to press into the full mission. Uh, while you, as you said, it's day.
Speaker 2:Amen, amen. This is, uh, this is an awesome privilege, brother to. I think it's a great time to be the church right now. I sound like Dale Meyer. Uh, president, president Meyer, it's a great time. It's a. It's a liminal time, scott. Right, they were President Meyer. It's a great time. It's a liminal time, scott. Right, we're right between. You did a lot Liminal.
Speaker 2:I know that's been your word Liminality. Liminality, the place between where we're going and where we've been. And I know the Lord is with us in the midst of the liminality. And I know too that in the midst of needed change change always includes fear and loss and adjusting bylaws, all of these things Guess where the Lord is. He's right.
Speaker 2:In the midst of needed change, change always includes fear and loss and adjusting bylaws, all of these things. Guess where the Lord is. He's right in the midst of it. He's carrying us, he's sustaining us, he makes us his temple, his dwelling place. He mobilizes us as his body. Is it beautiful? Yes, is it messy? Absolutely. That's just the nature of the church In this world. You will have trouble. Take, it's just the nature of the church In this world. You will have trouble. Take heart, I've overcome the world and I'm right there with you as you bring the light of my gospel into that world, for which I died and rose, and that's the hope of this podcast, buddy, and I'm grateful for you. This is a final word, scott, before I get going. You're awesome. Have a great Thanksgiving, brother. Yeah, man, all right. Yeah, man, all right. This is Lead Time. We'll be back next week with another episode. Peace, thanks, scott, thanks Tim.
Speaker 1:You've been listening to Lead Time, a podcast of the Unite Leadership Collective. The ULC's mission is to collaborate with the local church to discover, develop and deploy leaders through biblical Lutheran doctrine and innovative methods To partner with us in this gospel message. Subscribe to our channel, then go to theuniteleadershiporg to create your free login for exclusive material and resources and then to explore ways in which you can sponsor an episode. Thanks for listening and stay tuned for next week's episode.