Lead Time
Lead Time
The Future of the Concordias with CU System President Rev. Dr. Jamison Hardy
Reverend Dr. Jamison Hardy, the newly elected president of the Concordia University System, joins us to unveil the transformative shifts brewing within the Concordia universities. Discover the impact of the 2023 convention's resolution 704B, which pivots the system from managing bricks and mortar to robust ecclesiastical support. We celebrate the vitality coursing through these institutions, with promising developments such as the 802 church work students eager to shape the future of Lutheran ministry. This episode is your gateway to understanding how Lutheran Identity and Mission Outcome Standards are steering a new era for Concordia students and their communities.
The conversation takes a candid turn as we navigate the challenges Concordia universities face, including recent closures and the complex dynamics in Texas. Dr. Hardy bravely shares the tightrope walk of balancing mission-driven goals with unwavering theological integrity. As we explore diverse worship practices within the Missouri Synod, Dr. Hardy reveals insights from an upcoming chapel worship thesis designed to honor the wide-ranging liturgical styles. This engaging dialogue highlights the necessity for synodically approved materials that respect the tapestry of worship preferences across the university system.
Dive into the financial and emotional landscape of Concordia campuses, with a special focus on Mequon and Ann Arbor. Chancellor Erik Ankerberg and the CUWAA Board of Regents are at the helm, guiding their campuses through financial turbulence while striving for stability and growth. Feel the pulse of the university community as we discuss strategic decisions, the heartfelt impact on students, and the unwavering commitment to sustainability. Through candid reflections, we emphasize Concordia's dedication to its mission of spreading the gospel and fostering agents of change, united in hope and faith.
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Welcome to Lead Time. I hope the joy of Jesus is with you today. As I'm going to say before I introduce my guest, I am praying. I'm praying for peace, I'm praying for joy, I'm praying for unity, I'm praying for the right, now that this is the last of the I don't know four or five conversations I'm going to have on the Concordia University Ann Arbor conversation, and it's an honor to have Reverend Dr Jameson Hardy with me. Before we get, though, into everything the beauty and the struggle of the Concordia Ann Arbor struggle, could you just say, say, as a president of the Concordia University system, tell us something good. We want to know something good about our Concordia's because there's a lot to share. How are you doing, dr Hardy? Thank you for being on lead time with me, brother.
Speaker 2:Great Tim. Thanks for having me. It's a privilege and it's a joy to be with you, and I thank God for what you do. My friend, I really do appreciate it.
Speaker 1:Well, it's an honor and just praying for more unity and transparency in our church body, and I think that's what we're going to get today. But what is the president of the CUS in your new role? Now? Tell us a little bit about that and how you're interacting with all of the Concordias that and how you're interacting with all of the Concordias.
Speaker 2:Yeah, thanks. So let me just start with the convention of 2023 and the change with 704B, the resolution 704B, which changed CUS quite drastically. Actually, I chaired that floor committee on 704B and then subsequently, that floor committee on 704B and then subsequently completely not connected was elected president of CUS and took that call. So CUS is more today ecclesiastical in nature than it was previously. Previously it had property. It had encumbrance of property, loans, sale of property, budgets, master plans. That's all now on the LCMS board of directors which, by the way, they're going to be meeting tomorrow, friday the 22nd, and they're going to be considering two different Concordia University master plans and the like. That used to be CUS, that used to be Dr Wenthy and CUS.
Speaker 1:So, today.
Speaker 2:Predominantly what I do is we support our universities, their work. We carry out Synod's LIMOs Lutheran Identity and Mission Outcome Standards. And let me just say this about the LIMOs the LIMOs are absolutely not some kind of Lutheran purity standard. My vice president, reverend Dr Douglas Patel, likes to talk about the Limos as kind of a roadmap or a guide to help our universities navigate what is going on. And here's some good news and I really want this to be clearly heard we have five great presidents and we have five great universities with six campuses that overall are doing very well and I want that to be heard clearly. I know a lot of people are going to. We'll talk about the Ann Arbor situation, but I want you to know we've just completed, as of last week or two weeks ago, sorry all the informal visits to all five of our universities, and I'm sorry, all the informal visits to all five of our universities and I'm just going to say this Every visit we had was good.
Speaker 2:There's a lot of wonderful things to celebrate in our Concordia University system. There's a lot of great things going on in our campuses. You have Irvine just got a couple big grants. You have St Paul was just named the second largest private college in the state of Minnesota. They just expanded St Paul did into Denver with the nursing program. They continue to carry on Portland's nursing program. Nebraska has had some great stuff going on there.
Speaker 2:Russell Dawn in Chicago we just were there last week with the Council of Presidents and that university has got a lot of great things going on. They all have different great things going on, but they share one thing in common and that is a clear, concise confession of Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the Savior of the world. And I just I tell you, every time I'm on campus I marvel I've had a chance to eat with and meet with students and it's been just outstanding. It's been outstanding. Give me a couple of numbers 802 total church workers in the system right now. That's pre-seminary, that's teacher ed, that's all of it Now. I would love for that to be lots more, but I take great joy in being able to tell you we have 802 church work students in the entire system.
Speaker 1:Is that growing? This is great, I love that. Is that growing? Uh, I, I think it is, but at what kind of a rate? Are we seeing growth in all of those church worker programs that people really love to hear that?
Speaker 2:St Paul. St Paul is in its 12th year overall of growth as a university and this is the highest year that it's grown. The largest church work program it's had Seward and Mequon. They continue to fight with over 200. Seward's got 240, over 240 students, and so Seward and Mequon are always in this beautiful. I think it's a good competition on this of the number of church workers. Concordia Irvine is doing fantastic, along with Concordia Chicago, and so I think they all want more church workers.
Speaker 2:And one of the things we're doing in CUS this year, Douglas Patel, my VP, and I, or board members of CUS, will be at every district convention. Board members of CUS will be at every district convention and a lot of the district presidents have already given us 10 or 15 minutes to speak. Because I want to address the conventions, I'm scheduled to be at 20 of the 35 district conventions myself. We will also be speaking at the National Youth Gathering and at Higher Things gatherings and anybody else out there that would like to have us come and talk about the CUS and about our schools. I'd love to because we need to grow that program. But I want to say this All of the universities are focused on offering the highest quality church work preparation they can, and so I don't care whether you go to Irvine, Mequon, St Paul, Nebraska or Chicago. We got great programs, great presidents and great universities.
Speaker 1:Paul, nebraska or Chicago. We got great programs, great presidents and great universities. Well, that's so good to hear, and I got three kids, who are all prayerfully.
Speaker 1:I got three high schoolers right now Jameson and my son. He's a sophomore highly considering Nebraska and St Paul Not the other schools are there, but he's he's interested in playing, playing football in those programs. So so we'll see what the Lord does. I'd love for you to. You know I I get, for whatever reason, because I talked to a lot of people. God made me like, he made me that like I just love hanging out with people from all different types of perspectives.
Speaker 1:And so there are various rumors that you kind of hear and rumors, you know, perception is reality for that person. But our perception can sometimes be maybe misguided or we can lean too far into a respective rumor. And now one rumor I've heard is that, again, just because I hear, I'm not I'm not talking about this at all but is the LCMS org and CUS narrowing down, narrowing down and this kind of moves us into the Ann Arbor, like we'd like to get rid of institutions so that we can kind of make sure we can purify doctrine and all of the theological content. And maybe we're on a path toward narrowing all the way down. I'm just going to throw out a university all the way down to Concordia, nebraska, and so we can kind of have control of what God is doing in the universities. I've heard that narrative. Please dismiss it, dr Hardy.
Speaker 2:Well, not only will I dismiss it, let me be very clear. That is absolutely positively in contradiction to what President Harrison has asked me to do, and that is actually to grow the Concordia University system. I have a lot on my plate when it comes to this and again, thanks for previously having me on with my book on pastoral leadership. But, as you know, I have a business background and I have a business of human and my desire is to grow the CUS, not shrink it. And let me be clear, I know there's a lot of rumors out there on the web and Concordia matters with the Ann Arbor situation. I've had some people I went to high school with even say this that Jameson Hardy is, you know, matt Harrison's handpicked man to shrink the system down to the purified hole. And that is a lie. That is not only a lie, it is an egregious violation of the Eighth Commandment. I want to grow the Concordia University system. We've lost three universities and you know I'm thankful. I can say to you with joy a couple.
Speaker 2:Well, about a month ago I had a conversation with Don Christian about Texas. I've actually asked if I could come down and visit CTX, even though the Synod remember CUS is not a part of that lawsuit. The Synod is in communication and they're trying to work things out with CTX. But I want to get CTX back in the fold. I've had conversations with district presidents and university presidents about satellite campuses. One of them I can say we're looking at possibly one in Florida. We're looking at possibly one in the Northeast, in the central Northeast. We realize that there are pockets in the United States where there's a void of a presence, of a higher education for Lutheran church and my intention God willing our presidents have been receptive of this is try to look at satellite campuses where we might just do church work, preparation in one area or nursing, like St Paul is doing in Denver. But please understand, I want to grow the system. I want nothing to do with reducing it.
Speaker 2:Number two as you well know, I was a finalist before Eric was chosen to be president at CUW and I told people I have a very strong emphasis on vocational training. My son, nathaniel, went to Mequon for a short time but is down in Indianapolis studying to be a diesel mechanic for a short time but is down in Indianapolis studying to be a diesel mechanic. We are missing about 40 to 60% of our students that go to vocational training, that I've talked to the presidents about considering making a Lutheran vo-tech a Lutheran vocational, and if they attach it to one of our universities, these young people can have a university experience, play sports, have the chapel, you know, and be in a partnership with a local votex. So, yeah, not only do I want to dispel that rumor, I would hope and appreciate you and your audience would actively speak against anyone who would say that President Harrison, specifically, or this guy, is seeking to do anything but grow the university system. We need more than less, and so I will not, frankly, be satisfied until we do expand.
Speaker 2:We've lost three of our universities to closure, and each one of them are different, and, of course, the current situation with Texas, which is unfortunate. But I do believe in my heart that, and I mean this. I believe in my heart that we will be able to reconcile that, and I pray God often that, and I mean this. I believe in my heart that we will be able to reconcile that, and I pray God often that Texas can come back into the fold. So, yeah, I am not about closure, I'm not about shrinking. Our universities are Lutheran, they're faithful, and that's what I'll say to anybody.
Speaker 1:And I can say it, tim, firsthand yeah, I know, I know, I know, hey one, I believe you and I am not that you need my belief, but I, I endorse the growth trajectory of CUS A hundred percent. I mean those ideas that you just threw out so good. It makes me actually super jacked up. I'm super excited about what the Lord could do because I see, I see the next gen man. I'm in the trenches right now of ministry three high schoolers myself.
Speaker 1:It's like what are we doing in that formative time? It's so huge and our schools, nothing against Lutheran classical college. I was going to talk about that a bit too. I think it takes all kinds to reach all kinds. I think it's an open market and competition is good and we have the same confession and it's wonderful. But going to our Concordia is an entirely different experience and they do have a mission orientation and we do welcome people from outside. But we will not compromise our theology. It's just like our K-8 that we have here, right? I mean, we're going to teach you the catechism, we're going to give you great Lutheran theology, but we're going to welcome Mormon to Muslim. But we make no mistake that we are holding true to our Lutheran core identities here and we can do both things at the same time.
Speaker 1:I think a lot of the narrative has been like hey, you're either going down the mission line, you're going to compromise everything. Going down the mission line, you're going to compromise everything, or you've got to really, really batten down the hatches. And we do. We do both. We welcome all people to our. We can and we've struggled, maybe on one end of the spectrum and so the church. We're walking toward that. It is a Lutheran middle way right today. So I'm so happy to hear you say we want to grow those five and we'd even like to add some creative extensions of those five universities. Strong, strong supporter there. Before I go into, before we get into Ann Arbor, maybe one other, the LEMOs that you bring up I don't have all my acronyms the Lutheran.
Speaker 2:Lutheran Identity Mission Upcome Standards.
Speaker 1:Okay, very good. So you know, the one that will get like the most like kind of pull back, it's when we come into our chapel. Situations that are beautiful and need to be. We need to maintain, I would say, a liturgy, but some of them can be a little bit more open. I'm going to be fully honest.
Speaker 1:Like I grew up and I've been very public about this I grew up with the early forms of contemporary worship, right, and I'm a vocalist and a singer and all that kind of stuff. So I've been in the worship leadership conversation for some time. I also will say some of the songs, not all of them. Some of the songs were less than faithful and less than helpful for discipleship and I think we want to do better with that. And so a shout out to the worship leadership into the Wally group that's there doing some wonderful things and we're writing new songs, so many really great songs for those who do have modern instrumentation in our space. But where I'll land the plane, where we're going to get some pushback, is if we come in and we got heavy handed, unless chapel looks exactly like this. It's not, it's not Lutheran, would you?
Speaker 2:would you speak into that just a little bit Dr Hardy yeah, first things first let me just say this and I think, tim, you specifically know this about me nine years as English district president and bishop, which is the best nine years so far of my life in ministry. But we have in the English district probably the absolute spectrum ends of the Missouri Senate with, let's say, some of our higher liturgical churches, and then, let's say, the largest church in the Missouri Senate, hales Corner, is Lutheran and I can just tell you that I existed in that realm, I think very successfully, out of respect, knowing that I take the same approach that President Harrison takes. If you've never heard President Harrison talk about worship, he makes it very clear. You need to have the basic tenets of a service an invocation, a confession on absolution, a singing of appropriate hymns, songs, the reading of God's Word, the proclamation of God's Word, a creed, the Lord's Prayer and prayers and a benediction. And I want you to know we're going to be having a committee on chapel worship that will produce what we call chapel worship thesis. That's headed up by Reverend Dr Douglas Patel. We will have a representative from every campus. We will have three or four board members from CUS and then constituents in the Synod. And I promised him, doug and I were just together in St Louis. This is going to be a project that might take a year and the one thing we will not do, we will not state that you have to do this right. You know we have hymn books, we have synodically approved worship materials that kind of you know, deal with the spectrum. I will say that I'm sure a component of what the thesis will say is you need to use synodically approved liturgical things that have been kind of vetted from a theological perspective in terms of the content. But I am yeah, I've heard this one too that you know I'm going to superimpose a specific and sole standard for every university. Let me just say, out of the five universities, six campuses, two of the universities specifically already have kind of a very liturgical vested matins, morning prayer type stuff. Three of the universities have a little bit more of just what I described as a basic framework.
Speaker 2:I think you know occasionally you're going to see things that happen in chapel at our universities that you might go. Yeah, that's probably not the best thing, but I do not believe in my heart, I do not believe we have a worship problem on any of our campuses, and that's where I'll leave it. Have we had some issues on some campuses, at some services. Absolutely. Have I been present physically at a chapel that went kind of really off the rails? Absolutely. But do I think we have a problem on our campuses in chapel? The answer is no, not at all. I think our university presidents are very astute theologians and when a problem arises they deal with it. But yeah, so what we're going to do is we're going to put together a chapel thesis. We're going to put those theses out. Do is we're going to put together a chapel thesis. We're going to put those theses out and we're going to let our universities do what they do best and that's witness to Christ.
Speaker 2:Let me just say Concordia St Paul has gotten a little bit of heat recently because they had an advertisement where they had a woman with her hijab on who people are claiming that she's Muslim. She might be Muslim. I can't say yes or no to that, but Concordia St Paul is in the most diverse area really in the country, in a city that's a sanctuary city, and they're the most diverse of all of our Concordias in terms of the student population and they are unabashedly Lutheran and unafraid to be Lutheran. But that doesn't mean that you're not going to find issues on campus. We find a couple little things, but President Friedrichs is outstanding and he is not ashamed to stand up for what he believes. So no, look, please stop the rumor mill on this one. We're not going to have an edict or a dictate that you have to do things this way or else.
Speaker 1:Well, hey, on topics like this and this is just good pastoral practice, I'd say from a leadership perspective, this is an invitation. So there's an invitation to use what we've agreed to use and to be selective on songs that may not have been written by folks with our confession. That's just wise. Have you heard of the Song with our confession? That's just wise. Have you heard of the Songwriters Initiative? That's kind of coming out of CUI.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, look, this came up last week when we were in Chicago with the presidents, and I won't mention which president. Again, we got five great ones, but one of them made the point, on the topic of chapel worship thesis, that we have all these great music departments. I'll just speak to my high school choir director, kurt Von Kampen, who's at Nebraska.
Speaker 2:One of the best musicians. I know. His son is the choir director at St Paul and we have great Lutheran musicians and they should be coming up with new stuff. And one of the presidents brought that to the attention of the IAC, the Advisory Council, the presidents, and it's true we want our universities to use their skill sets and to bring that to the church. But again, the only issue I would say there is that the content of whatever the song is that material and I think you'd agree it ought to have passed the theological muster. And we leave that up to the presidents and the process that's in place for reviewing that stuff with the campus chaplains and the like.
Speaker 1:Well, yeah, yeah for sure. And we're singing some of these songwriter initiatives I'll tell you what, brother, you probably haven't heard them all yet. They are super cross-focused, super narrative of God's love, baptismal identity really, really good for the church and we, finally, if we're going to have some churches that are singing, I'd rather I'll just throw it out right now. I would be great. Matt Preston picks songs and I'd rather I'll just throw it out right now. I would be great. Matt Preston picks songs and I see him. He's one of our church workers here in our awesome congregation. I would be great if we didn't ever sing Bethel or Hillsong again. I'm just throwing it out there. I think we're past that and we can write a lot. We can do better and we are working to solve that problem. So, all right, let's get to it From your perspective, what happened at Ann Arbor, and so I'm just going to throw it over to you.
Speaker 1:You've got some data that a lot of people may not know and another preface to this there's so much emotion in this, and my hope in this last conversation is that, as I've said many times at funerals, we grieve. We grieve with great hope for what the Lord wants to do and it is a death. It is a funeral type of a grief that we're just kind of processing and so sometimes the emotions and even the accusations there may be slivers of kind of truth. But you may not know all of the data and we're just trying to work it out and grief is messy, right, there's no like. This is the way we do it and so I think as a church body we're just grieving and hoping to move past the grieving time with a little more clarity today in our conversation. So, from your perspective, what happened? How could things have turned out differently? And give us a better take on the financials, dr Hardy?
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, thank you. Let me just first say this, and I want to acknowledge unequivocally that since February of 2024, there has been a lot of heartache, there has been a lot of pain and I think, Tim, one thing I just want to share is the pain that we hear about are the people connected directly with Ann Arbor the parents, the students, the faculty and staff. But I want you to know something else.
Speaker 2:There is pain also on the other side of the coin. There is pain in the administration with Eric Ankerberg. There is pain at the Concordia University of Wisconsin-Ann Arbor Regents who have had to make choices that cause people to lose jobs, cause the downsizing. But I want to be very clear because the narrative that I continue to hear drives me really insane. Concordia, ann Arbor, a campus of Wisconsin, is not closing and and I want that, that I know as soon as I say that whenever you put this out on the web. But you know that there's gonna be people on congregations matters or Concordia matters, I'm sorry, and they're gonna hammer me and they're gonna say that it's effectively a closure or what we've done is effectively close it. And yet I have been in every regent meeting, less one over the last seven years. Okay, every regent meeting. So I want, tim, I want you to know this I have watched the board turnover at the last convention cycle. We have several new members on the current board that have only come on since the last convention cycle, and I've said this in other forums.
Speaker 2:I had the pleasure of speaking to the Michigan District Board of Directors. I thank Dave Davis. I know he is trying really hard to be evangelical about this. He's a brother of mine on the council for many years and I know he's in a very tough spot. He let me speak to the Michigan District Board of Directors and I said this there as well very tough spot. He let me speak to the Michigan District Board of Directors and I said this there as well. These are good people on the CUWAA Board of Regents that want what's best for the church and for the gospel and yet they're being maligned, they're being raked over the coals. Eric Ankerberg is being totally and completely destroyed publicly because of the emotional side. I've been in the meetings, tim, and I can speak with authority and say this never once, never once, have I heard anything at a meeting that has anything to do with what's best other than what's best for the university, the campus in Ann Arbor and the gospel witness.
Speaker 2:And number two, what I would say twice as many cuts were made for last fiscal year ending June 30th on the Wisconsin campus than was made on the Ann Arbor campus. And nobody wants to talk about this. Okay, everybody wants to focus on Ann Arbor, but the truth of the matter is twice as many employees, faculty and staff lost their job at Wisconsin in the rifts that took place and I'm not minimizing anything that happened on the Ann Arbor campus. I'm simply sharing with you that it's not an isolated incident.
Speaker 2:Eric Ankerberg and the regents had to make very tough changes and so let me go into some numbers. Let me share with you some numbers and, by the way, for anybody paying attention to year actual $8,886,140 loss. Now, tim, let me repeat that $8,886,140 loss in the operations side of the university, the big loss. Let me give you the specific campus numbers for 2023. For Mequon campus $4,159,364 loss operational loss. The Ann Arbor campus last year $4,820,155 operational loss. The Ann Arbor campus last year 4,820,155 operational loss.
Speaker 2:Okay, so last year, or this year in February, when all this took place, the Board of Regents met with President Ankerberg, as you well know, we had this direct process to look at how to write this ship. Many rifts were introduced on the Mequon campus and on the Ann Arbor campus. Those all took place like May 31st. Those all kind of kicked in. So, before the June 30th fiscal year end for Mequon, I'm going to give you the numbers for the actual year end consolidated financials. I'm going to give you the numbers for the actual year end consolidated financials and I know you pay attention. A lot of people have been on Concordia Matters saying CUAA was $50701 in the black. That's corporation-wide. Here's the black. The Ann Arbor campus was $1,953,826 in the red. That comes out under the operational line with $44,701 in the black. So let's just take one quick deep breath, try to set the emotions aside. After all the changes that were announced already this year and that'll take place, the Ann Arbor campus lost $2 million last fiscal year.
Speaker 1:So please, to everybody paying attention to this.
Speaker 2:please stop saying there is not a financial reason why this has occurred Now. The good news, however, is that the Lord has been gracious. You're going to get people out there saying well, there's a tremendous market gain in the endowment. That is a true statement. What's not true is the exact same thing could have occurred on the other end of investing, which is a co-equal loss in the endowment.
Speaker 2:And so, please understand, cuwaa Board of Regents is paying attention to the operation line, and I know you had my good friend, my mentor and teacher, pat Farian, back in February. He talked about the mix of using endowment monies and that's all true, but the Board of Regents at CUWAA, along with President Ankerberg, have made the decision to focus on making the operations positive and not losing money. And so, when I just shared with you those numbers, if CUW did not have the Ann Arbor campus, it would have been roughly $2 million in the black. But the good news is, as a single university, the university ended up $44,701 in the black because the difficulty in Ann Arbor was offset by the positive response in Mequon and because we are one university with two campuses. That, tim, is good news. That doesn't mitigate all the changes that are going on in the Ann Arbor campus. That doesn't mitigate the yet-to-happen rifts. That doesn't mitigate the sports going away. I fully understand that. That's heart-wrenching.
Speaker 2:I have a family at my own congregation whose child plays sports at Ann Arbor who has to find a new university. Own congregation whose child plays sports at Ann Arbor who has to find a new university. That's a real issue. Mom was in my office. Emotions flew. I understand this. I'm a Michigan boy and I know I've been criticized on Concordia Matters. How come Hardy's not doing more about this? How come Harrison is not doing more about this?
Speaker 2:The truth is the Board of Regents is carrying out their fiduciary duty and I believe they're doing the best that they can. President Ankerberg has done nothing in my presence other than speak well of and do his best to mitigate what's going on. Tomorrow he will go to the Board of Directors of Synod with a request for some action items that the BOD of Synod can approve that would affect the Ann Arbor campus. Again, let me say this, tim, there is no desire to outrightly close the Ann Arbor campus by the Board of Regents. On the last Thursday region, when we met last Thursday, there was not a single word about closing that campus. There is a consolidation they're looking at to the North Building. I think everybody knows that the health care programs are going to be completely kept.
Speaker 2:I have made it very clear to President Ankerberg. We've had many, many conversations. He has talked about a one-year hiatus for church work and then come back and, believe me, I'm going to hold his feet to the fire on that. The CUS board is paying very close attention to this because the centerpiece of our Concordia University system is church work preparation, and if we don't have church work preparation there, I have a concern about that right. So again I want to be clear. They're taking a year off, starting next academic year, but he has assured me that the intention is to bring church work preparation back. All right good.
Speaker 1:So I mean, that's a lot of information.
Speaker 1:It is Let me follow up and thank you for that. I think it's the specifics that many people may not quite be aware of, aware of. So, first off, the district, the Michigan district, tried to respond to meet the short-term need and you know, some people feel like their gift and their effort was kind of roundly rebuffed, and I'm sure that's not exactly true. The way I kind of make sense of it is like well, it's good for now, but we've got a systemic, longer range operational problem, that this is a very small bandaid on a very large wound. Is that a fair understanding of why the district's attempt wasn't maybe roundly considered?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So let me clearly articulate that situation, because I've watched and listened to the folks that you've had on about that.
Speaker 2:Number one in February, when CFO Kali did their evaluation and President Ankerberg presented it to the Board of Regents and there was a red flag of financials. The Board of Directors established four committees. I was chair At that time. I wasn't CUS president, I was just a member. I was chair of the accred four committees. I was chair At that time. I wasn't CUS president, I was just a member. I was chair of the accreditation piece. There was a legal piece, there was a finance piece and there was properties or I forget the fourth one, but forgive me for that. But here's the deal. The chairman of the board of directors, john Berg, said to Dave Davis go and get a Michigan plan, because Dave kept asking well, is there an alternative? So the board said to Dave Davis go do a plan. So he got a bunch of people together some you've had on your show and they produced a Michigan plan and presented it to the Board of Regents.
Speaker 2:The Board of Regents, its June meeting, had one decision to make and that decision was can Concordia, ann Arbor, be returned to its independence as a university and then the Michigan plan would have been able to quote unquote be put into action. Okay, so the Michigan plan had to be set aside until the university determined whether or not Ann Arbor could be independent. And let me just give you my committee I chaired HLC Higher Learning Commission. There was no accreditation path for Concordia Ann Arbor to receive accreditation on its own. If we just cut it off and set it aside and I won't go into all the specifics Somebody is going to say, well, there would have been a path. The path would have been very long and not allowed for complete independence right off the bat. Okay, so the point is they could have not have been severed and been made independent and then gotten accreditation. So let's just start there.
Speaker 2:I looked at the Michigan plan. I think you know I have a little bit of a background in finance. I have a doctorate in this stuff. They had, as a part of their plan, annually raising $10 million in fund development. That's a lot. Now just follow with me for a second. They have not hit $10 million on the Ann Arbor campus separately and solely in terms of fund development. You know I'm talking about gifts and bequests. Yeah, since Mequon took it over, I applaud their desire to do that.
Speaker 2:So when they say their plan was roundly and completely dismissed, it had pieces within it that simply were great desires, great hopes, great faith that it would happen. But I'm just here to tell you that wasn't what the CUWA Board of Regents was voting on. They were voting on whether or not it could be independent. And so when they made their decision in June that they couldn't be independent because of all these reasons accreditation, legal, blah, blah, blah that was not a rejection of the Michigan plan, it was a rejection of that university's campus could not be independent. Thus it couldn't even institute the Michigan's plan.
Speaker 2:Now the other thing I would say they raised what was it? $3.75 million in pledges, yeah, and you know there was this whole to-do and I think the regents at Mequon bear responsibility a little bit in this that that money was rejected. Let me be clear that money was never outrightly offered to CUWAA and if anybody says to you it was, I assure you again I was in the room, tim, I've been in every meeting less one it never was offered, as here's the gifts and bequests, here's the pledges, save Ann Arbor. Never was that offered. In fact, what I need you to know is it was absolutely articulated and I won't make any names, call anybody out but it was absolutely articulated that if any closures happen, any reduction on the Ann Arbor campus happens, or if the plan that the CUWAA regents came up with wasn't satisfactory to the Michigan District or its board of directors, there would be no money. That was said, okay, and so I'm actually.
Speaker 2:Look, I give Dave Davis and the Michigan District kudos for raising 3.75 million in eight days. I can't tell you how happy and thrilled I am, but I'll tell you this I think if they would have simply outrightly given that money right away, there could have possibly I'm not saying will, but there could have possibly been a little bit more of an extension to not have to do what they've done this year. We might have gotten a second year to try to make things work. But hearing that they were $1.95 million in the hole in operations in this last fiscal year, that $3.75 could have wiped that away in operations, you understand my point. So this accusation that CUWAA Board of Regents rejected that money, that is not a totally true statement.
Speaker 1:And so Let me just push into that a bit. It's because and the last question I sent you, brother, is Satan's had a heyday in situations like this in dividing us, and what does he want to do? He wants to steal, kill, destroy trust in relationship. And so the reason that's not, they don't, they didn't because of the communication struggles. This is again I'm 2,000 miles away from this whole thing, right, but it's just communication missteps at various points where people needed to be in the room to draw together. This is what I do in leading the local church, this is what you have to do. You, you're negotiating. Here's reality, and how are we going to come together as one?
Speaker 1:And I think geography, to a degree, kind of got the best of us in this situation as well. You know, absence does not always make the heart grow fonder, right Absence, you put the worst construction on absence, and so that's why there was a little bit of reticence. Well, we've raised this. Are we going to get what we need? And at a very human level, you can understand why that would be their case. It was a dampening of trust, and that is very unfortunate. Any take there, though, dr Hardy.
Speaker 2:Yeah, look, I hear you completely. Let me just say Dave Davis and I had many conversations about this. Again, I applaud him for what he did. I understand the position he's in. I am not throwing stones when I said that. Okay, I'm not. Let me also be on the record here. I spoke to the Council of Presidents last week and the presidents of the universities were there and I made this statement and I'll make it here because I believe it, the CUWAA Board of Regents understands that they could have done a better job communicating. President Ankerberg has made it clear that he could have done a better job communicating. President Ankerberg has made it clear that he could have done a better job communicating.
Speaker 2:I will tell you and if anybody tries to go on Concordia Matters and twist my words here, I want you to hear me clearly I am not happy that this has occurred. I am not joyful that we are in this position. I wish we could have avoided this altogether. I'm an athlete, I'm a football player, I'm a wrestler. I don't want to see sports go away. I mean you know, but I also know from a corporate perspective. We can't keep losing millions of dollars. And again, all due respect to Pat Ferry and his administration today is not the same environment that he had right. And so he had a process, a program. He had Al Prochnow as the CFO, who I have great respect for. I mean, al, 20 years with Pat, did a wonderful job moving that university forward. But I also have talked to other people and I was in the meetings, tim you know, every time we would get communicated to, even when my friend Pat was there as the president. We're going to add this program, we're going to add this athletic program, we're going to add this academic program and there's going to be a tipping point at which those things start to produce. And I still believe the health care is going to get to that point where it tips over and it's going to start producing. I'm a believer, I'm a hopeful believer, that that likely will happen. But in the meantime we cannot continue to just look at operations and accept the losses, and that's what I think President Ankerberg has made his stand.
Speaker 2:Now. Let's be clear If you talk to my college classmate and friend, dr Bull at Nebraska, he will tell you, as Pat told you on your show, that they live off of a different model than what Eric is doing in Mequon. That doesn't mean that either of those models are right or wrong. It's the model that that leadership has decided to go for. I'll go on the record and say this. I've told this to the presidents in our meetings, and one of them in particular, my friend Bernard. He lovingly disagrees with me. I am the business leader that will say I want positive operations. Now, I'm going to get criticized for that and I'm going to be told that that's not how higher ed works. But if you go on websites and journals like the Chronicle of Higher Education, you will see that this battle between net neutral operations, positive operations and then bottom line numbers with foundation and all that other stuff this argument is not unique to the Concordia University system.
Speaker 2:Okay, so the fact that we have different opinions, the fact that my friend Pat Ferry would say this is how we've always run it and the fact that Eric says this is how I want to run it, they're not in. They're not in conflict with each other. They're simply different styles, and I want that to be understood, because what's happening is people are taking a side of a equal coin with two different viewpoints and they're calling the other side wrong. And I want to be clear I don't view it that way. I'm not saying they're wrong. What I'm saying is this is how I view business right, because here's the deal.
Speaker 2:I teach portfolio management at CUW in the DBA school and the bottom line is investments in a foundation are going to be up. They're going to be down and a good investor is not going to get emotional when they're up. You don't get emotional. When they're down, you don't get emotional.
Speaker 2:But the problem is you can't control market performance. So what can you control? The only thing you control is operations. You can't control bequests. You can't control gifts. You can work hard to get those, but you can't control them. But you can control operations and I know you're a theologian, tim.
Speaker 2:What does the Bible say about what you can do? You worry and control about the things you have been trusted with God to control and that's all you do. And you work within the framework of that which you have. And remember the parable of the vineyard. What does the master say to the workers that worked all day and they complained about the one who worked one hour? The master says is it not mine to give? And so the parable of the talons in Matthew 25, the Bible says they were given what they were able to manage.
Speaker 2:So my whole point here is this those two different philosophies I do not think are in combativeness to each other, and Eric is the president right now and this is how he views it. And again, you don't have to agree with him. In fact, I've said this publicly. I don't expect everyone to agree with him. In fact, I've said this publicly. I don't expect everyone to agree with him. But they do have to respect the fact that it's the way he wants to do it, in the way that the regions have decided to do it, and that's what they're doing, and they're doing it with godly intentions and intentions to do what's best for the gospel.
Speaker 1:Hey, I respect it. This is an area of adiaphora, as I've said in a number of podcasts. Right, I mean there's no solid way you can use an endowment. For me, I would feel uncomfortable if 50% or even like 15% of our yearly $8 million church and school budget were taken care of by the performance of an endowment like that. So I get that. It's just a change of philosophy.
Speaker 1:Dr Ferry had a different view of the endowment. It was a different day. I mean, everything's brand new. This is an entrepreneurial venture. We'd not seen two Concordias merge before. So I understand how he would say you know, we were making a larger investment into our endowment, we were taking on some risk to see if we couldn't sustain a Concordia Ann Arbor, and God bless them, they, they did, it worked and then and then you have a new president and he's got a different perspective and the markets changed and and he's not comfortable with that sort of risk for two years. So I get it from a leadership perspective, from a business perspective, I get it. The hard thing was it just hurts people and at the end my under overriding emotion in the whole story. I'm not angry. This was tough, I think, as I've talked to a lot whole story. I'm not angry. This was tough. I think, as I've talked to a lot of people. We're just sad. We're just sad that it got to this point. Right, that's it.
Speaker 2:And I want to acknowledge that. I mean I'm the president of the Concordia University System, previously bishop of the English district, so I have a very significant outlook on the church from a district's perspective and now from the Concordia University System's perspective. I am sad overall for the church that this campus of CUWAA is dealing with what it's dealing, but I want to give you some good news for the future. Let's go thing that the Board of Regents talked about on Thursday in the plan that's going to the Board of Directors has with it a outlook for sustainability in the near term and growth in the long term.
Speaker 1:And again.
Speaker 2:I know that will not please many people on Concordia Matters, I know that, but in my heart I can put my head on the pillow and I can say thanks. Be to God that Eric Ankerberg, john Berg, the chairman of the board, and the entire board is focused on trying to fortify that campus. Eric said, president Ankerberg said at the regents in open session we need to maintain a presence in Ann Arbor. You heard me say at the beginning of this podcast we're looking for deserts where we're not at, where we can put campuses or satellites. I have not heard a single word out work to that campus and anybody that would say anything else about Hardy or Reverend Harris and our president of synod that they don't want that there. Tim, you can correct them. That's an outright lie. Got it, got it.
Speaker 1:So is there. You know, I think people would want to know. I think people would want to know, Dr Hardy. I mean, could athletics at some point if it made sense like return in some way, shape or form to Concordia, Ann Arbor, I don't know look, so I'm not president of CUW AA so.
Speaker 2:I'll answer that with what I hope and I pray as a as the first captain of the CUW wrestling team and in a hall of fame member at CUW. I hope that athletics can come back there at some point. Um, I I can't promise it because I don't know what the future will hold. I think the short-term plan does have us fortifying the university campus there. I think the short-term plan has a certain part of growth on the North Campus, without a doubt. I want to say this I am not a supporter or a desire that's not my desire to see us liquidate that South Campus, the main campus. So you know, I mean, is it out there as a possibility? Tim, there is a possibility that there's a scenario. It's not something I want to do. The Board of Directors is meeting tomorrow with the opportunity to have some decision-making power into this.
Speaker 2:Let me also say this President Ankerberg was very clear in open session. He announced that the board of regents has a desire to carve out I believe it's 10 acres where the Michigan district's office is and give that to the Michigan district so that that's permanently their property. That was talked about in open session last Thursday. So I mean, I again I guess what I want to finalize this whole kind of topic is I understand the emotional side. I have people I went to grade school with on the board of directors of Michigan district. I have people I went to high school with who are on Concordia Matters.
Speaker 2:You know, making all these grandiose claims about how horrible I am and how horrible President Harrison is, and I understand, because their kids are going to school there. I try to be charitable and I try not to defend myself or Harrison publicly there because I know that the emotional side of it is just going to continue to blow up. But I want you to know I have a pastor's heart. President Harrison has a pastor's heart. I read President Harrison's letter to the Board of Regents in which he said I want you to keep as much as you can. That's sustainable. That was his words. You probably saw the letter. It leaked out into Concordia.
Speaker 1:Matters.
Speaker 2:I read that in June to the Board of Regents. So I can tell you with certainty that President Harrison wants nothing but growth and a lot of positive stuff, and I shared with you the numbers of all the church workers for the system to let you know that the church is going to prevail. Look, I'm a competitor. You know me a little bit, tim. I don't like to lose, I don't like to be behind the eight ball. We are going to fight like the Dickens to bring the CUS system and our universities to the top of the heap, partly because I believe that we belong there, because we have a great thing to offer the world and the church and because this is what we do we educate, we teach and we prepare.
Speaker 1:Yes, Dr Hardy thank you for reaching out to me, and I hope that this brings some clarity, and it's just because I was misinformed. Sometimes we're just trying to do our thing local and you hear different things, and so here's the overall focus of this podcast. Man is where there is division, where there's confusion, where Satan is having a heyday. We need to look face to face and we're using technology, we're still face-to-face man. We need to look face-to-face to one another and honestly say I have heard this or I've heard you say this or do this, or even think or insinuate this. Is that true? And if it's not true, I confess. If I have misspoken toward an individual, I'll always say being the president of Synod or the president of CUS, this is a hard thing. Being a pastor at a local level it's a hard thing. It's pick up your cross and follow after Jesus. And so where I get excited and passionate is when I don't see the church operating in a churchly fashion, meaning putting the best construction on something until you get other information. And the beauty of long-form podcasts today, dr Hardy, is we get to have longer-form conversations where tone matters. Tone matters for sure and the heart. You actually know the person and we're seeking to build bridges of understanding to hopefully rebuild trust where trust has been damaged, so that we can unite in the mission man.
Speaker 1:The world needs the theology of the Lutheran Church Missouri Synod and the theologians, the academics that are seeking to give that into the hearts and ears of teachers and DCEs and administrators and pastors and worship leaders, et cetera, like we. We need to come together as a church body and and may it not be said that this Concordia University, ann Arbor situation just served as the next step in leading us toward whatever, whatever could come in the future we I am not okay, now you get me going I am not for division in any form in the Lutheran Church Missouri Synod. Now, I am for having clarifying conversations around what we're united around. But if anybody thinks the ULC is about, oh, it's just a next step in some sort of a coup to get out of like that is the furthest thing we want to be a part of man. Okay, I am a Concordia guy, I'm an LCMS guy, I'm a third generation guy, I am you, we are us and we're doing this together.
Speaker 1:And it's unprecedented times in a post-Christian, secular day and age in which we live. Our contexts are remarkably diverse. We need to listen twice as much as we speak and we need to put the best construction on everything. So thanks for allowing me even to I don't think I've been that that pointed in any podcast. I have no ulterior motive, just like you don't have any ulterior motive to destroy the Concordia system right?
Speaker 2:No, no. And please let me just say finally this for anybody who's paying attention, especially for those folks on Concordia Matters where the emotions are just raw and running wild my phone is open. My email is open. I'll talk to anybody about this. I'll listen to you.
Speaker 2:I'm a pastor at heart. If I've offended in any way in how I've led, please accept my apology. I am like Tim. I'm very passionate about what my church is doing. We are not seeking to do harm. We are seeking to be the best stewards of the resources God has given to us, and I can say that on behalf of President Ankerberg, I can say that on behalf of John Berg, the president of the board, I can say that on behalf of CUS and I can say that on behalf of President Harrison. We are simply seeking to do the best thing we can do for the sake of the gospel and be good stewards at it.
Speaker 2:So where somebody has been hurt or offended, I'm sorry. We are here to lift each other up. We're here to support each other, we're not here to destroy. And so please, when you think about starting to type some vicious accusation, before you do it, give me a call. Talk to me first Give me an opportunity to actually tell you what I think, before you go on Concordia Matters and tell everybody what I think, because you really don't know what I think. I want to grow the system. I don't want to shut it down.
Speaker 1:Let's go. All right, let's go. Concordia. More of them, more kids on our campuses hearing the gospel of Jesus Christ and being mobilized in multiple vocations to be salt and light in a dark and dying world. This is lead time. Sharing is caring, like, subscribe, comment wherever it is you take in these podcasts and we promise to have more, hopefully, joy-filled, truth-filled conversations, just like the one we had with Reverend Dr Jameson Hardy. Thanks, brother, for your time and for bringing a different slant to this hard time that we've walked through. But we're grieving with hope, moving forward, centered on Jesus. It's a good day. Go make it a great day. Thanks, dr Hardy.
Speaker 2:Praise the Lord.
Speaker 1:All right.