Lead Time
Lead Time
Changing the Culture of LCMS Conventions with Rev. Dr. David Maier
This episode highlights the central theme of transforming the church’s approach to mission work by prioritizing outreach and collaboration. Dr. David Maier discusses the rebranding of the Mission Partners Platform into ‘The Center’ and focuses on unity, humility, and effective community engagement within church leadership.
• Importance of making Jesus the center of ministry
• Rebranding Mission Partners Platform to The Center for collaborative outreach
• Challenges at Synod Conventions and need for a shift in culture
• Emphasis on humility and open communication among church leaders
• Encouragement for pastors to strengthen family relationships
• Need for unique strategies tailored to diverse church circumstances
• Mobilizing all church members to embrace their missionary identity
If you want to connect and explore more about our initiatives, reach out to David at david@thecenter.info
This is a podcast about setting an intentional rhythm, savoring life’s blessings and...
Listen on: Apple Podcasts Spotify
Join the Lead Time Newsletter! (Weekly Updates and Upcoming Episodes)
https://www.uniteleadership.org/lead-time-podcast#newsletter
Visit uniteleadership.org
This is Lead Time.
Speaker 2:Welcome to Lead Time, tim Allman here. Jack Calberg has the day off. I pray the joy of Jesus is with you today as I get to hang out with one of my favorite leaders on planet Earth, reverend Dr David Meyer. And let me tell you a little bit about David. David has served in a number of different roles. As a right out of school back in 82 to 84, he was a mission pastor. I'm going to put a little pin in that. Guess what pastor? Every pastor is a mission pastor, but there may have been a title back in the day of a mission pastor.
Speaker 2:He was also a youth pastor for a while at St Peter's Lutheran Church in Arlington Heights. That's quite a church. In the Lutheran Church, missouri ascended from 84 to 89. He was a lead pastor then at St Peter's for a little bit of time and then he took a call. Actually was 20 years as a senior pastor at Our Savior Lutheran Church in Lansing, michigan, and then was the district president for 13 years, with one extra year thrown in for extra measure during COVID. Thank you very much. And after leaving the district office there in Michigan, he's now serving as executive director of Mission Partners Platform, which a new announcement is taking place right now. David, before we get to that announcement, how are you doing, brother? Thank you for hanging with me today.
Speaker 3:I appreciate it, tim, very complimentary of you, and I'm honored to be on this podcast. You are a highly respected individual podcast. You are a highly respected individual and the times that I've been able to listen to you speak and the time that I worship with you at church have been blessings for myself. I know my wife would say the exact same thing, so thank you.
Speaker 2:Hey, well, the honor and joy is mine. This is so much fun. I love doing these podcasts because you get to hang out with friends and then make new friends as well. So give us the update on Mission Partners Platform. There's a change that's taking place. I'll let you do the honors there, David Sure.
Speaker 3:Tim, if you don't mind, just a little history. Mission Partners Platform really was put together back in I'm going to say 2016-ish, and that was when people were just, you know, coming off of a convention and there was some discouragement and it didn't matter really which side of the aisle and they're probably our sides, that's no secret is that there was no real emphasis placed on any type of missional outreach, missional outcomes, knowing that God loved the world, that Jesus was sent for the world, and so, you know, mission Partners Platform then became over the years, as these lay people gathered and pastors and some district presidents became more formalized. First it was Spiritual, theological, constitutional STC, then it became Mission Partners Platform and it's growing. And, you know, really in the last two, three weeks after we had our first collaboration, which is kind of our convocation or even convention, we have become the center, the center that is, you know, jesus is the center, should be the center of our life, our theology, our homes, our congregations and his missional heart.
Speaker 3:He came to seek and to save the lost in the world, for God so loved the world that now he, that missional effort, theology, concentration, purpose is really the center of why we are here, and so we just love changing our name to the Center, keeping justification by grace, through faith, as its doctrinal center, but also purposing that with reaching out to the lost in the world. Oh, I love it. Yeah. So that love it, yeah. So that's why it's becoming the center and it's the centerinfo T-H-E-C-E-N-T-E-Rinfo, and thank you so much for asking.
Speaker 2:It's good. So how is the Concordia Market now? Because you had another kind of venture. How is that interacting with the center? Does someone just go to thecenterinfo to hear more about Concordia Market? How's that work?
Speaker 3:David Sure, concordia Market was a major part of why the platform now the center really came into being, and that is that so many missional ministries have started over the last 15 years.
Speaker 3:And, quite frankly, as I got around the country, it was interesting to see how many ministries were started in different places, different regions of the United States that had no idea that something similar had started somewhere else in the United States, and they might have even been serving in the same way in their communities or even overseas. So putting people together, that's the collaboration emphasis of the center, or MPP. Pooling resources, that is not just finances, but also, or probably especially, what have you done to reach the loss where you are at? That could be shared. Or maybe you had a missional Bible class or a sermon series or a woman's Bible class or small group that you use once, you write it up and then it's never used again. Well, why not share it or why not sell it? That's up to you and you can make that determination for how you want Concordia Market to work for you. So tons of resources there, tim.
Speaker 2:How is Concordia Market and now kind of the centerinfo? How is this connected to best practices? A lot of people, and I would say across the spectrum of Synod, have looked at best practices. It's a great gathering place. There's obviously a lot of wonderful speakers. It's a great opportunity to connect with friends. It feels like to me that your intention is Concordia Market is what best practices is between February, between our gatherings, so that we can hear all the different stories of God at work in the world. I don't know if you've thought about it that way, but that's kind of how I kind of position Concordia Market.
Speaker 3:I honestly have to say I have not thought about it that way. First of all, best practices and ministry and Pastor Jeff Schrank and Christ Church Lutheran there in Phoenix just amazing, you know started the way it did. People have come together. It's what I would picture, that I would desire a synodical convention to look like People sharing, listening, telling stories, encouraging, sometimes crying together, but always gathered around that word. I think what's been done there is amazing. So you're probably right, the center carries on. I think it's more mission focused than just ministry mission focused. But I would love to become that between February gathering place for people that want to encourage one another, sharing of resources and collaborating, working together for the honor of the Lord, as we to carry on his ministry, his heart's desire just to seek and to save the lost. The gospel still works.
Speaker 2:Hey, yeah, you mentioned Synod Convention and I'm curious your thoughts. I don't know that it could entirely become like what best practice is because we have to do what the work of the church through you know resolutions and elections and things of that nature. So you can't have entirely that vibe, but I would love for there to be, and I've been to the last three. I think there are pockets where we're trying to tell stories at Synod Convention of God at work in the world. But I don't know that the spirit probably because of the political nature of all the resolutions and different candidates running for different positions the spirit is just different. There's more competition and sides there rather than maybe a listening and learning posture or any kind of any kind of, because you've been to many of them as well. If you could pick two or three kind of things that could change the culture of the Synod Convention, maybe toward more openness and joy, any kind of things right off the top of your head. I hadn't given you that question, but you brought up convention. I'm just curious.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's a fascinating question, Tim, and I'm fine with anything. You know what could change the culture of conventions? I, I, that's a. That's a tough question because I think so much of what we've become, certainly in the last maybe decades, or last decade especially it seems to be very insular, very centralized, very let's look at ourselves very and I hope I can say this appropriately very authoritative, very power-minded.
Speaker 3:And if you look back here I'll just say this if you look back at resolutions where, if the gospel is powerful, powerful and if the gospel still works, and if we have been blessed by ourselves and we are to reach now Jesus first sermon is salt in the world and light in the world. Where have our resolutions concentrated on? That's not been it. It's insular, it's. It's seemingly power orientated. That's not been it. It's insular, it's seemingly power-orientated. It's looking inside. It's not focused, as God would lift up our eyes, as Jesus said, to see the harvest that is ripe. It's ripe. And he is looking for workers, and that's not just PCWs, professional church workers, it is all of our members.
Speaker 3:You know, if you look at Exodus 19, I mean, this is part of the Old Testament too. God had a very special nation that he had chosen to be a nation of priests. All of them were all of them, not just the Levites. And as priests you know you intercede for you, you are the go-between in many regards between the people and God. And they were priests for the nations.
Speaker 3:You know, when you go get to Solomon's building of the temple and that incredible prayer there, he wants it blessed as a house of prayer for all nations, Something that Jesus even quoted, you know, in the cleansing of the temple and in the Passion Week.
Speaker 3:So if more focus there, I think a true repentance on our part on how we again seemingly just judge other people or what they're doing and don't try and have the glasses of a missional God that loves all people and recognize that they're with this great gifts of the Holy Spirit and great wisdom that God gives to people. There are many and unique and incredible ways that the gospel is being used, demonstrated, administered to reach people that don't know the Lord and, quite frankly, if people would get more involved with that, I think we'd see, I would hope we would see political power diminishing, that there would honestly be a search for the best of the best, those that are mission-minded, a heart like unto God's, like it was said, of King David, and someone that would just have as a concentration and a foundation that God so loved the world that he gave Jesus.
Speaker 2:Have you seen, because you're, you're, I'm not trying to date you here. Have you seen, because you're, I'm not trying to date you here, david, but you remember the time when we had the Great Commission convocations for a season in the 80s.
Speaker 2:My dad remembers those gatherings too and, man, he would come back so fired up, not just about I mean, yes, about the mission, but about being a part of a church body. That was about the mission. There's been a shift over the years and it's never this is not again against President Harrison et cetera there's been a cultural shift that's occurred. My take and I've had many conversations right my take is that as the culture has gone a secular you know, we were pagan, et cetera that the reactive response collectively in our synod has been fear and protection rather than mission and execution toward that mission with arms wide open. And you just go back to the first century.
Speaker 2:Jesus has entered into a culture that's very, very anxious and fearful about losing their traditions, losing their ability to practice their worship because they don't curry enough favor with the Romans. We're right on the series right now with Herod. Herod, the great Herod is like right in the middle We'll take whatever you can give to us, herod, if you protect our traditions. Hey, thanks for the awesome temple, by the way. And because of that fear, that fear is what propelled them to obviously crucify the son of God.
Speaker 2:Praise be to God, it was all a part of his plan, but I feel like we're living with that sort of fear today. That's shaping the way we address, maybe, creative ideas, those of us that may be on the missional fringe and I don't shy away from saying that I want to be whatever. It is short of sin to reach people with the gospel. That's what we need to be about and our theology propels us toward that end. But I think there's been a shift over the last maybe three to four decades and I'd love to get your take on how that has happened, david.
Speaker 3:Wow, how is looking at the hearts of people? And I certainly can't do that. I think fear, however, is a big part of it, and you can sense that. Is culture changing? Has culture become more open to sin and thinking it's right and speaking well of sin? Well, I think the Bible actually tells us that. Read Romans 1, 18 and following. I believe, and you just know, this is going to happen, but the church never shied away. I'm almost wondering that, under the guise of you know pure theology, and I say, guys, I don't want that to be judgmental because I don't know what the motivations are, but the Bible has never needed defense. God has never needed to be defended, as if he couldn't handle it. But he does raise us up to be lights to the world, to be a witness to the world. And when you just start concentrating inside and are not looking at the power of the gospel to take outside of the church walls to reach the world, it's interesting what happens.
Speaker 3:Tim, I heard a story once and I can't remember the author. It was about springtime, it was a spring snowstorm. They had gone, he and his father and his other uncle and his son. The two boys were the same age, went to I think it was Northern Texas spring snowstorm came and they couldn't get out to fish. The first day that was fine, they stayed in the camper, played cards all day. But you know, after a while that gets a little rough. And the next day went out snowing worse and icing water had even iced over a little bit. They went back inside and he said it was interesting what happened. They just started picking at each other and it was getting really uncomfortable and by the next day they just packed up and he said here's the moral of the story for me, when you don't fish, you fight. When we're not out fishing, that is for the lost. You can think of the great harvest of fish a couple of times in the Bible. They're really at the beginning of Jesus' ministry and at the end, what do you do? You fight. And I honestly think that carrying out the mission of God, the missio Dei, has a sanctifying and purifying effect on the church, where it actually would help us and bless us as we take out the word. Tim, if I could say one more story, because I can hear and I've had those questions about well, then, you're just going to compromise everything and I, like what you said earlier, do everything short of sin. I get it. Amen. And it's really from our first president of the Missouri Synod.
Speaker 3:Cfw Walther and he is one that you know addressed the first synodical conference and apparently there were difficulties going on there too. Or you know people picking on one another or whatever it might have been, and he says brothers, pure doctrine, pure doctrine, pure doctrine. People always ask me about what's so important about pure doctrine. And then he said that's like saying to the farmer good seed, good seed, good seed, what good is good seed? Well, it's a very reasonable thing to understand that. What he was saying was of course you want the best seed, it brings the best harvest. Of course you want to maintain pure doctrine. No one has ever asked us to compromise that. But let's take it, know it so well, be motivated and led by the Spirit that we can share it, proclaim it, be the lights in the world that God wants us to be and let the Holy Spirit have the harvest.
Speaker 2:Amen. So you bring up a question. You know that God doesn't need defense, that the scripture doesn't necessarily bring defense, and I can hear people saying well, what about 1 Peter, 3, verse 15 and 16? But in your hearts, honor Christ, the Lord as holy, always being prepared to make a defense to anyone he asks for the reason, for the hope that is in you. Yeah, do a gentlest respect into the good conscience so that when those that malign you, uh, or slander you, those who revile your good behavior in christ, maybe put to put to shame, what would you say to a brother says obviously the gospel needs defense. Peter peter says so plainly in scripture. What do you say there, david?
Speaker 3:Always be ready to make a defense, that is, know why you believe what you believe. Hold the word out there and I think you're defending yourself by what you are saying or by what you have done. And please note that this is out there, the way it looks in the world. It's not just the let's gather in a church. I'm going to defend myself Maybe rarely, that would be needed but you're out there sharing why you're defending that, why you're proclaiming the gospel, defending that against the world, so that if they come after us and, by the way, this leads to fear, I'm going to get to that If they come after us, we have a good conscience. The church sees us, our Lord sees us. We need fear nothing because God's got us. We are in his hand.
Speaker 3:And here's what I think we fear, tim, tim Ferriss. We have enjoyed comfort. We have enjoyed a very, at one time, a pretty receptive culture to Christianity. This dramatically changed. We still think we live in that era at times, but we fear what happens if we share the truth and we're persecuted. What happens if we share the truth and people condemn us or put us down or so forth? Fine, our name is written in heaven. What if we're martyred. Oh, my goodness, look at previous centuries and brothers and sisters in Christ in this century that have given their life for the word of God. Let us not fear men, let us fear the Lord, god, and let us be about his mission, for which we will be held accountable.
Speaker 2:Yeah, amen. And have you seen the movie Bonhoeffer, by the way?
Speaker 3:I have not, and actually it's on our winter snowed in list, so maybe it's a tonight watch.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, no, it's really really well done. We had about 150 people that packed a feeder in our congregation this past Sunday to take it in and yeah, it was really really well done. And I just think of the courage of Bonhoeffer standing for the gospel of Jesus, not compromising. You could make a case like defending the truth of scripture, defending the centrality of Christ crucified, but doing so against the powers that be, namely the church. So where the church is in error, like we need voices from within, inside, like kind adjutants, kind friends, those that come along and say, hey, maybe our eyes are off. The main thing, and the main thing has always been to make disciples, who make disciples. So the multiplication of the message of the word of Christ, that when we gather for word and sacrament, why are we gathering? Yes, to be comforted by the word of God. Yes, to be reminded our sins are forgiven and we eat and drink and taste that the Lord is good, he's for me. But we're there and I say this way more often we are there to mobilize missionaries in all of their respective vocations to share the message of the crucified and risen Jesus. That's why we gather to mobilize the baptized for love and good deeds, if anything other than that, your holy huddle like that's not the. That's never been the primary focus of the divine service. The divine service is meant to mobilize us, to remind us who we are in our baptism and to send us with the presence of God in the blessing. This goes back to Numbers, chapter six. This is a presence of God which goes before you and leads. You're sent, you're sent, it leads. So, yeah, we've just been and I've said this publicly we've just, over time, become imbalanced. We need the office of holy ministry, but we're there to mobilize, to equip. Obviously, the apostle Paul is very eager to do this in Ephesians, chapter four, to equip the saints for love and good deeds. We got all these different titles and things. All well and good, but don't forget your primary focus, which is mobilizing the saints to in their various vocations from their home. Yes, yes, let's focus on training up the next generation in our home. There's a big movement have more kids. It's great, let's have more kids and train up the next generation in the way they should go.
Speaker 2:But don't, don't make the end result, just like here for us, protective. No, no, no. The end result is the mission of God to send and propel the saints for love and good deeds to be light and salt in a dark and dying world, to carry the light and love of Christ. This is to go back to the defense. To go back to the defense, brother, always be prepared to make a defense for anyone who asks out in the world, the Gentile, the pagan, the lost, for a reason, for the hope that you have. Every time the apostle Paul talks about hope, it's centered in the hope of the resurrection. So this is his call. The defense is not protective. The defense is actually open, open to the world, open to those who don't know the gospel of Jesus. So I pray for that day to get back to that place, as and I think there's a lot of room, a lot of room here you may have a different approach as it relates to the liturgy.
Speaker 2:God bless you, you know but, don't forget the main, and that's, that's contextual, that's cultural for you, it works for you. But don't forget the main thing, which is mobilizing the saints for love and good deeds. I'm off my little rant there, david. Anything to land that plane there, brother.
Speaker 3:No, I would tell. I just say this to you, tim, thank you, I would say amen. And if can you imagine if we could regain that, that forethought, if we could regain that target of reaching the lost, how I believe, how it would pull us together. Yes, you need good seed, yes, you need good doctrine, but what does your context require? I am in culture. I am thinking of when I was district president, tim, and getting to know Detroit a bit and I love those congregations and those men that are there. I was blown away.
Speaker 3:I was a mission pastor in a very rural area, marlette, michigan. Then I became a youth pastor. So it's kind of you just serve the kids in your school, kids in the public school. We had seven different high schools so I got in the world a bit. There. You know being at their games and their events and getting to know them or cafeteria time or whatever. And then know being at their games and their events and getting to know them or cafeteria time or whatever, and then becoming the senior pastor at Our Savior. You're kind of you get a little. You can see I'm almost becoming more church focused as you go along.
Speaker 3:But you also have to make a determined decision that I have to talk about and I have to share that we are here, as you said, to reach the lost. That's really what we're about, and how are we doing? How can we accomplish that? And I am thankful that I already always had leaders around me that would emphasize that. So we have left that Landing the plane is. Let's get back to that centrality, that focus. Let's encourage one another in that regard and that is what the center is all about. Let's keep Jesus, his word, his teachings, his gospel seed and reaching the lost as the center, and let God do the rest.
Speaker 2:So so, listener, if you're wondering what would be a tangible next step for me in in worship, I've done it a couple, three times recently, and sometimes people get uncomfortable when you have people stand up in church, but this last Sunday there were probably we had I don't know how many, 800, something like that in worship and probably about 200 adults in various vocations stood up during the close of my message and and I commissioned them as missionaries in the marketplace. Wow, and and they there was this like wow, this standing up, like I know who. I go out carrying the gospel of Jesus and not just in how I live, how I treat people. To be sure, we're going to treat people. We have a different character the way we engage the marketplace. But, as the Lord gives opportunity, I want to tell people about the hope that I have, Do so with gentleness and respect, but I want to talk about Jesus.
Speaker 2:I'm going to pray for opportunities to talk about Jesus and I think there's many, many women and male leaders in our church out in the marketplace that are waiting to receive that permission from their pastor. Go, go, go. I am sending you Any thoughts there, David? I hope I didn't. I mean, it was just a commissioning and I'll do it every single day. Actually, every day when you wake up, you're commissioned, through your baptism, to carry the message of Christ out into the world. But sometimes we need leaders to just kind of stand up and give that sort of permission. Pastor says I can go talk about Jesus. Yes, please do so.
Speaker 3:Go ahead, david. I would say amen again. Tim, thank you for doing that, and that's a very visible thing to do. That reminds the people that were present and, I believe, our listeners now too, that through our baptisms we were joined to Christ. Christ lives in us. It's no longer I who live, but now Christ who lives in me. Or you go to Roman six baptismal theology in Christo and Christo, we are in Christ. Christ is in us and he came to seek and to save the lost. He's given that, that, that commissioning to us and to all of our members, and for them to hear that, know that, be reminded of that, encouraged in that, what a blessing. And to make that visible in that, what a blessing. And to make that visible.
Speaker 3:So, getting back to your you know the Peter passage always be ready to give a reason for the hope. So would people know that you're hopeful, yeah, or are you just hiding? Are you scared? Are you fearful? Do you stand out? Why do you stand out? It's only when you stand out that you might actually have to give a defense, criticize for something you say. Do believe how you act, and it's also what people will see if you're living hope and if you are living hope because you have living hope, as Peter says, first chapter, there, man, that looks different. And how excited people will be to ask you, because that is not what the world has to give, boom.
Speaker 2:Let's go All right. Let's do the proverbial pivot. You were a district president for 13, 13 years plus one. What was the best and worst, the hardest part of being a district president? Get us behind the curtain there a little bit, David hardest part of being a district president.
Speaker 3:Get us behind the curtain there a little bit, david. First of all, I would say working at the parish level truly is. My father would say that is where the rubber hits the road. That is it. That is the best of the best. And if you do anything else in the church he became a professor at one of our seminaries and he was a vice president and Senate and the like If you do anything different, it has to be because you believe that you can help that message of the gospel and the office that the word is getting out there.
Speaker 3:So, having said that, I would say I found working at the district office with the quality of people that were there or the team I was allowed to put together of looking for the very best that had a similar vision like that. We want to support gospel outreach. That was absolutely the best. In Michigan we have a Michigan Church Extension Fund and they are an amazing group of people that support gospel outreach and that's how they really bless all of our congregations and we were certainly blessed by that. I had incredible vice presidents for all 13 years.
Speaker 3:These were not yes-men guys. They were elected by the regions and then nominated by the regions and then elected by the conventions, and then nominated by the regions and then elected by the conventions. And these were men that challenged what I would say. I was very open with them, I shared how I was doing ministry and why and what our goals were for that six months or a year or two years or five years. And they would say what's going on here? Or I would bring something else in and say are you leaving some of your goals here? But they would challenge challenge else in and say are you leaving, like some of your goals here, but they would challenge challenge. And once they understood they would not, they would certainly change me or I could help form them. And then we went together in something that was mutually agreed upon. Benefit they're great men, circuit visitors, unbelievable men, I would say.
Speaker 3:Getting to know the leaders at Concordia University and Arbor what an absolute blessing they kicked out was. They were stunning. You know we had a growing university with President Ferry and CFO Al Prochnow. Of course, now it's being sold or reimagined. That's just hard, I would say. Getting to know other district presidents Tim on the council was amazing and there's a camaraderie that's there because there are 34 other men there that know what you're going through, and that's a good thing. So I would say that was all of those things were the best. Did you say worse too? I can't remember.
Speaker 2:Well, yeah, there are. There are hard things. I mean the fires you have to put out, the, the discipline or removal, I would imagine, of various leaders. I mean, how hard are those things? And my take in just kind of watching, observing the way district presidents function, just kind of watching observing the way district presidents function. You've got to be intentional about vision and shaping the culture of your district toward mission, because you could easily just like a pastor, could, you could easily become just reactive toward the squeaky wheel or toward this or that. How did you kind of set up, I guess, a team of people to support you in the putting out of fires?
Speaker 3:Tell that story a little bit, david so you're right, things can become a distraction, and so having vice presidents that I said that were centered in the word these regions nominated great men I did use them to help me with fires. Sometimes there was an investigation or I would say, just kind of seeking of the truth. What is going on? And I think for all of us, a continual emphasis on prayer that we do not know at all. We do not know at all. And we, why did God encourage us to pray and why? Why did he give us the Lord's prayer? It was so that we would if Jesus bowed before the Father as the God-man. Maybe we should think about doing that more often too, and seeking God and not only asking him to bless what we are doing, but asking him to lead us to do what he wants to bless.
Speaker 3:And so, you know, having vice presidents that knew that focus but had to deal with some of these issues, sometimes circuit visitors also what an just incredible blessing that allowed us to maintain some type of focus of holding up the gospel.
Speaker 3:And I would also say and I'm going to mention the name here of holding up the gospel, and I would also say and I'm going to mention the name here, I got to know Bill Woolsey through some of the events that he would sponsor and I just found a man of God that I could respect and love and appreciated the speakers that he would bring in, and so I just asked him if he would come and spend some time with us as a district. I just asked him if he would come and spend some time with us as a district and we went to kind of a three year plan more or less and looked at what he could do to help all of our congregations think about taking the gospel that does not change and having it go out so that it can change forever lives. And I'm just grateful for everyone that God has surrounded me with and helped me to get to know that I can work within ministry, and all the people I've mentioned are those people.
Speaker 2:Amen. Well, bill Woolsey, good friend, a decent golfer. A decent golfer, bill, I love you. And no, an amazing, amazing ministry heart. He's very competitive.
Speaker 1:It is competitive nature.
Speaker 2:Oh, my goodness, to the next, to the next level. But love you, bill, and proud of all that the Lord has done through 5-2 to be sure. So, back in 2018 into 19,. David, you were put forward by a number of folks to potentially be Synod president. What did you learn during that journey, David?
Speaker 3:Oh, man, brother, a lot I would have to say a lot, lot, and I'm going to borrow maybe from some of the things that I said, even about the district, the people I got to meet, the, the congregations, all of which are the bride of christ, all different, all beautiful to the lord, but man, they are all. They're different, different sizes, and and not just the buildings, I'm the people. I mean it's just amazing. Uh, they're all precious in god's sight. And so getting to meet people I never thought I and not just the buildings, the people, I mean it's just amazing, they're all precious in God's sight. And so getting to meet people I never thought I would meet was absolutely an incredible blessing.
Speaker 3:Often I got to speak at district conventions as an essay so I could share some thoughts and, I think, missional understanding and I appreciate comments there Getting to know the pastors, if I was given time, I was amazed how often they would say hey, can we talk to you? There's a group of us, sure, and they would ask questions and I could ask them hey, what are your dreams, what are your doubts and what are you looking for in a president? All of that was humbling. We have such good people, tim that serve in the office and I was blown away by that. So I would say those were the really positive things about running for or letting my I don't like running, letting my name stand for a synodical president.
Speaker 2:Well, grateful, grateful you did, and I'm just as I look at you and many, many leaders like you. Thank you for staying engaged in the mission, thank you for staying engaged in the life of the church. Things have changed, though in the local church. In the last gosh it's been 14, 15 years or so since you were kind of in the parish, since you left, and you still have a good kind of macro view because of your time as a district president and now with thecenterinfo, the center shout out. Since you left the parish, what do you think has changed the most in just local parish ministry in the last 15 years? David?
Speaker 3:So first, you're right, I've been out of it for 13 years, been grateful to serve locally here at Our Savior in Benzonia, sometimes at Trinity in Arcadia and that's still a blessing. So I'm doing that actually more often than when I was beginning to learn in the parish before I was elected district president was how much context for our congregations is changing a culture and I'm not just talking, the world is changing and look how dark it's getting, whatever it is, but then the gospel shines brighter. But that each individual congregation is different. My mission church and we're all missionaries, tim, yes, my mission church, as it was designated, in Marlette, completely different than when I went to I think at that time it was the second or third largest church in the Synod, st Peter, ernington Heights, and served as youth pastor and what a shock. It had more than one stoplight, that whole area. It's a northern suburb of Chicago. But then just to see what tensions and pressures the kids were facing and their parents and the congregation was fascinating. And then as district president, to know each congregation is different, so that even though there's a congregation at the very tip of Northern Michigan that is serving 200 people and there's a church in Southeast Michigan, detroit or Southwest Michigan, benton Harbor, maybe 200 also. All three of them are serving in such diverse circumstances.
Speaker 3:Their ministries not only look different, I almost want to say they had to be different. If they're in tune with the Lord and listening to their people and praying to the Holy Spirit, god leads his people. This is Jesus. My sheep hear my voice and they follow me and I give unto them eternal life and no one can snatch them out of my hand. But we're listening, we discern the voice of the good shepherd, the Savior Jesus, and follow.
Speaker 3:And every church is different. So that's what I saw, that's what I brought to people's understanding. I pray, I hope that there was a massive encouragement and not judgment from the brothers for everyone else in the district and I think we had a phenomenal spirit of encouragement and, in that regard, unity, going forward and just respecting what other people were doing in the context in which they were, context in which they were. I would also say, you know, just having people draw close to the Lord and he says and I will draw close to you, he will hear our prayers and answer them and we just have to be, we have to follow that voice. I think the LCMS, in many regards, has been educated way beyond the level of our obedience to the word and we really need to get back to that you know, if I can say something to Tim in that regard.
Speaker 3:Yes, you can. That's kind of why I like the S, that's why I do like and love the SMP program and I wish somehow that it could expand, because men are raised up in context and they know what ministry is like from ministry one, from minute one. They're not just trained for a ideal church of 200 where there's no financial problems, everybody loves the pastor and can't wait to volunteer, and so you know, I don't know that that church exists, I think in context in context. They're raised up, so they know what they're getting into.
Speaker 2:People have recognized their spiritual chops, so to speak, and that's why I think that program is really, quite frankly, invaluable, I agree, and I think it can get better and I think our SMP pastors can get a degree and I think raising up contextual leaders. I'm resisting the urge to go down that path right now. David, that's not this podcast, but I think, maybe another time, a lot of time.
Speaker 2:But yeah, I think we can elevate the need for robust, theologically trained we don't compromise on the truths of who we are and how we've been trained and we can do it virtually for the sake of raising up contextual leaders very, very well. And I believe if we do that, residential only increases Residential only increases If the brand of seminary education is more open.
Speaker 2:Seminary residential education increases. I've said it publicly many, many times and I every time. So, let me, let me bring it home toward this. I said I wasn't going to do this. Now I'm doing it, but every time and any kind of seminary leader you need to uh, I'm inviting you and not not you need to, I'm inviting you to listen to a guy who's in the trenches of local ministry. Every single time, I say yes to a new venture to reach people with the gospel. Our local ministry grows.
Speaker 2:Every single time we it's like God is a God of abundance rather than scarcity, David every single time we open up to the new possibility to reach people with the gospel, what we do locally improves, and the same principle will take place for a theological formation conversation. Our God is not a God of narrowing narrow, he's widening. He's widening. He wants more and more. Yes, the God is not a God of narrowing narrow, he's widening. He's widening. He wants more and more. Yes, the way is narrow, but we want to widen the approach to reaching more people with the gospel, and leaders are necessary toward that, toward that end. So, synod leader, synod presidents and and seminary presidents, I would love to continue to have the conversation toward that end and I know, David, you share the same, the same heartbeat today. We need to raise up more leaders, local, and this will not hurt residential. It will only improve what we do residentially. So, David, anything more to add there to land that plane.
Speaker 3:I'll tell you what, tim. No, I appreciate your attitude. God is not a God of scarcity, but of abundance. People in Michigan would know that one of my favorite verses is from Ephesians, chapter three. God is able to do. God is far more abundantly, immeasurably more than all we ask or imagine.
Speaker 3:According to his power that is at work, catch this within us and in the church, and I think our problem and maybe because you know we I want to be careful how I say this, because I don't mean it to be a cultural, you know, sting at all. You know we're so German. It's maybe it's hard to imagine and maybe it's hard to pray, but I know more and more people are praying and taking God up on his word and promises and to imagine what God can do, which is what you do so well, tim. May that be blessed and may our church be blessed in the future in that regard as well.
Speaker 2:Hey, this has been so fun, david, I want to talk. This is a leadership podcast, and healthy leaders raise up other healthy leaders and create healthy churches that are mobilized for mission. So what are your top four characteristics of a healthy pastoral leader, david?
Speaker 3:Okay, well, I appreciate that and you gave me some insight that that might be asked. I'm going to say there's probably a couple of these that could tie into each other pretty well. Absolutely, a mandate is that the individual have a strong personal relationship with the Lord, that he knows his God, that he knows his word, that he hears him speak, that he can discern the voice time in the word prayer. I have to admit that early on in ministry, until I met some pastors that loved me enough to come alongside me and just constructively criticize or advise or encourage, you know, prayer was a last thing, gosh, if there's time, I have too much else to do, too many people to see, and then you know, you're reminded of Luther. If you have so much more to do in a day, what do you do? Well, I get up two hours earlier to pray. Do in a day, what do you do? Well, I get up two hours earlier to pray.
Speaker 3:Now, I didn't do that, but I tried to consistently, concentratedly, spend time in prayer. Look at the day start on Sunday, map out some things for that week, even to know how I was going to pray, and realize that when emergencies came, god knew about them and he wasn't surprised wasn't surprised by COVID, by the way and that we entrust ourselves to him and pray and that he's going to help us get it done. And where we think we fall short, isn't it wonderful Now we do fall short that the blood of Jesus Christ, god's son, cleanses us from all sin. So have to have a deep personal relationship with the Lord. I would even encourage journaling to see answered prayer and how God is working in your life, your family's life, your congregation. I would say you have to have a phenomenal relationship with your wife. Now, I know that for some it's easier. You've been blessed with a great wife, tim.
Speaker 3:I've been blessed with a phenomenal wife, pat, and she is a godly, quiet woman that has endured so much and I cannot say how grateful I am with her. But to have a spiritual connection with her, a social connection with her, keep dating your wife, certainly physical, and certainly enjoy that. That's wonderful Mental connection. All of those are important and, by the way, that should also take place with your family and that's why I think vacations are important. And if you ask my kids, they knew I was busy as a pastor and they knew I loved them and I would try and take time and get to their games and I know you coached him. God bless you and do as much with them as I possibly could. But they also knew that vacation time that was concentrated family time. I would say if you have sons, have them take out mom. If you have daughters, take them out on dates, let them know what a Christian man is like, let the wife know what a Christian woman is like, and I just think that's so critically important. So those intimate relationships, and then I would say, man, have a great relationship with your staff. If you have a school, with your teachers and the leadership of the school and then with all your professors and, quite frankly, with people in your community accident and please hear that this is a confession. I knew the principals in many of the locations of my congregations that I served. I knew, in a couple of cases, detectives and heads of police departments and fire departments, because they were members or good friends or they came to an event.
Speaker 3:I think pastors now need to be more deliberate in getting to know community leaders so that something does happen. Community leaders know who they want to turn to and why. And there you go, tim always be ready to give a reason for the hope that you have and to share that and to be invited to do that as well, and sometimes you'll be criticized. You have, and to share that and to be invited to do that as well, and sometimes you'll be criticized, but be invited to do so as well. And I think we will also be defended as we are coming to bring hope, which everyone in this world needs. Amen.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, that's a great summary. So, prayer, deep dependence on prayer, prayer without ceasing. You got to be in right relationship with your spouse and your kids If we miss on our primary vocations as a leader man, we miss on absolutely everything.
Speaker 2:And how does Satan seek to take down many leaders? It's when we don't have that solid relationship with those who are closest to us and we're not living in accountability. I don't want to be another stat of a pastor that fell off with some sort of immoral breakdown because I didn't pursue my, my wife Uh, that that would be the worst thing. And she, I love, I love it. She's a kind adversary to me, right? She, she's like Tim, you're not you're not that big a deal.
Speaker 2:You're like. You're like who cares about you Like just mind your, mind your position. Alexa is really great for letting me know. She's an encourager, for sure, but I got plenty of encouragement around me. I need someone who keeps me grounded, and that's my wife. She's amazing. And then to have, I think, out of that relationship that's how you kind of enter into then relationship with leaders in your church and leaders in the community, with a right perspective.
Speaker 2:I'm just one leader among hundreds and thousands. Then the Lord can work, with or without me. I'm grateful he's working in the small little corner of his kingdom with me. But mind your role and do not think you're too big for discipline, because discipline comes from the kind adversary which is the Holy Spirit who lives in my wife and sounds a lot like Alexa Allman. Praise be to God, david, what do you?
Speaker 3:want to say there Amen. I love that term, kind, adversary. I would have to say that Pat is certainly one of the kindest women I know. I love that you said adversary, because that's kind of that check and balance deal and Pat has been that all my life. Kind enough to say do you think that went through? I don't think so. Or just find something else that she might just call me at attention to, Like you say you love your children, but I don't think you've been around the last month.
Speaker 3:What do you think about this? And it's like ooh, good call. I know you've been saying something and now you made it really plain. Thank you. She was the one to be consulted If I let my name stand to be considered for district president. She was the one to be consulted to let your name stand for synodical president. And man, your wife is going to be intimately involved in whatever you do. And the Lord makes it plain have your household, you know, make it an example and a demonstration of love and grace and have a kind opponent there. I like that A kind adversary. God bless that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it is. This is kind of funny, to me at least. We have this video that just came out and when this podcast gets released, it's been out for some time now, but it was called the Church Office and it was this little spoofy thing we put together for a district all workers conference and a lot of people thought it was funny at the district conference and so we released it on YouTube and over the course of like four or five days days it had like 20,000 views or something like that on on YouTube and I told, but yeah, whatever, I told my wife that you know, hey, honey, this is kind of going viral and she's like that's not even close to viral. Tim, I'm sorry, but it's a good try. She's seen viral stuff.
Speaker 2:That happens and I'm like okay, it's LCMS viral honey, I don't know. Anyway, so silly, we had so much fun with you. David, thank you for being a friend and a partner in the gospel. If you have one or a few words of prayer and it is a prayer what are your biggest prayers for the LCMS? Where do you look at us and you say we need to grow in this Jesus direction? We'll land this conversation there, wow.
Speaker 3:The church is made up of sinners, congregations, the church in general, our denomination, and if it weren't so, we shouldn't be here. Christ Jesus came to give us life for and the gospel is meant for all sinners. So we've got to be thankful for the gospel and hold that up. What I'm really concerned about, and what I hear from my children even, is that you know, when there's so many distractions in the church, pop people don't see Jesus. They see churches on each other's case or they're arguing about this or fighting about that. Quite frankly, tim, they would challenge me in high school and bring friends over and I would learn about them later, these friends, just to see how we would react and respond. Or they would tell me ahead of time they want to see how we'd react and respond and I think they always I know they always appreciated a genuine living out of the gospel. I was not perfect Maybe my wife is, but I was not perfect by any means and they'll remind me of that too. But when I think about that, what was necessary in the family? I think what is necessary in the church, and that's humility, and I don't see a lot of it in our church denomination. We need humility, we need to know that we are all sinners, that we stand before a righteous God. In whatever office that God places us, we're going to be held accountable, and that God has a desire to bless us, but he also wants us to draw close to him through humility. I would say. Repentance, tim.
Speaker 3:A question I received once was like what would you do as a nautical president? What would you do as a synodical president? And then even there was a lot of bad diversity, judgmentalism, arguments. I said I would love for our districts to hold a service of repentance, that we could repent of whatever we have done to contribute to chaos in the church, or power hungriness in the church or judgmental. We need to repent. We need to learn how to relate to one another.
Speaker 3:So I think speaking the truth and love is also a critical component. I'm not saying forget If you see someone doing wrong. If we love our brother, we do have a responsibility. I'll throw in here, not across district lines, for God's sake, just get to know your brothers and sisters in the area. But if you see someone you know what, draw attention to it and speak to them first. Always, in whatever you do, speak the truth of love. I strove to do that when I was a DP, even in the most severe discipline issues. And then finally, and I might say here, even most importantly, we have to have a missional theology that is centered in Christ, that is centered in the missio Dei, the mission of God to seek and to save the lost. That's why we're here, that's why Jesus came, that's why the church continues, and that has got to be a priority.
Speaker 2:And I want to say, finally it is for the center. Hey, there we go. This has been awesome, david. You're a gift to me and to the body of Christ, and so, yeah, this has been a joy If people want to connect with you and your ministry.
Speaker 3:How can they do so? You know email david at the center T-H-E-C-E-N-T-E-R dot info the center dot info. You can go to the online site, which is the center dot info. That's also the website. Check out the resources that are there. You can go to Concordia Market, which is where we're collecting the resources and having people encourage one another. There's also God Works, which is original content that we're producing, and I know that they would find something very helpful there as well. So let me give you my cell phone too, tim, and I'm fine with you publishing that. It's in the church directory as well, or the synodical directory, but 734-355-1973. Finally, I would say we just finished our first collaboration at the end of October in Ann Arbor, tim, I'd like to use this opportunity to invite people to our next collaboration, which is going to be at Risen Savior in Chandler, arizona. That's right next to Phoenix Community of and right before Best Practices, and I would just strongly encourage them to come and to join us there.
Speaker 3:We're going to be concentrating on again the mission of God and the title. This time is Now Knew More. Now is the favorable time. New sing to the Lord, a new song, god saying behold, I'm doing a new thing and more. Of course. We've already referred to Ephesians 3. God is able to do far more abundantly. Now Knew More. Please come and join us February 11 and 12.
Speaker 2:And people can get info of that at thecenterinfo. Is that where they go to sign up?
Speaker 3:Yes, a special site is going to be set up for that collaboration. They can find out more information there and it's called collaboration, so that we can work together and encourage one another.
Speaker 2:Amen. Come into Phoenix just a bit early before BPM on February 13th through 15th. Come to Now New More, february 11 and 12 at Risen Savior in Chandler, arizona. It's going to be a lot of fun. I'll be there and I like that.
Speaker 2:You gave out your cell phone. I actually gave out. I was on a podcast called On the Line with Brian Stecker, a young man who's leading up in the Twin Cities area, and we had a good time. He asked me to give out my cell. So I gave out my cell and I'm like I don't know, can I reach out or whatever. I got like bump, I mean kind of reasonably bombarded, like 10 different folks that listen to the podcast this was just like yesterday have actually text me and we're having interactions and a couple of them were not. You know they're not fans of me and what we do, but that's okay, we're all. We're all working it out together. So I'll just say 303-887-0507, 303-887-0507. Text is appreciated and we can set up conversations toward the Jesus end.
Speaker 2:And, as always, if you want to get on this podcast, I would prefer, because it takes a bit to schedule these. I'd prefer if you sent me an email If you've got a difference of opinion and want to get on to share that opinion. We'd love to have you, t Allman, at CGL Church, cglchurchorg. So, david, you're a gift. Thank you for this time. This is Lead Time. Sharon is Karen. Like, subscribe, comment. Wherever it is you take in these podcasts, like us on YouTube, if you've not done so. That helps with the algorithm to get the message of love and joy and peace and missional innovation for the sake of those who do not know Jesus. That's what we're to be about while it is day, for night is approaching when no man or woman will be able to work, and we won't be about the master's work while it is day. It's a good day. Go and make it a great day, wonderful, while it is day.
Speaker 3:It's a good day. Go and make it a great day.
Speaker 1:Wonderful. Thanks, david. God bless you. Dear brother, thanks for all you're doing. You've been listening to Lead Time, a podcast of the Unite Leadership Collective. The ULC's mission is to collaborate with the local church to discover, develop and deploy leaders through biblical Lutheran doctrine and innovative methods To partner with us in this gospel message. Subscribe to our channel, then go to theuniteleadershiporg to create your free login for exclusive material and resources and then to explore ways in which you can sponsor an episode. Thanks for listening and stay tuned for next week's episode.