Lead Time
Lead Time
Does Branding Matter for Churches? With James Saleska
The episode delves into the significance of branding in church ministry, emphasizing how identity and storytelling play crucial roles in reaching new audiences. Church leaders are encouraged to rethink their approach to branding, ensuring alignment between mission statements and the experiences they provide.
• Emphasis on the holistic nature of branding for churches
• Importance of storytelling in conveying church identity
• Disconnection between mission statements and lived experiences
• Tips for creating accessible and inviting church websites
• Recognition of branding as an ongoing, evolving process
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This is Lead Time.
Speaker 2:Welcome to Lead Time, Tim Allman here. Jack Kauberg in the house. How you doing, Jack?
Speaker 3:I'm doing fantastic, man. It's been a delightful week, very busy week, connecting with a lot of people. Depending on when we post this, there's a little bit of a time shift here, but we're just finishing BPM in the Phoenix area, as well as meeting with some of the most mission-minded people in our entire national church body, so it's been very invigorating, I think, really exciting it was.
Speaker 2:Lutherpalooza for a whole week, everybody and their mom descending upon the valley, maybe their grandma and grandpa too, especially with the mission orientation in the Missouri Synod. There are so many, jack, as I get to hang out, so many amazing ministries, men and women of faith who are in maybe full-time vocational ministry, but I talked to a whole bunch of lay leaders, elders and those that may be on boards that are just looking to cast new vision to reach new people. I think there's a spirit of optimism and hope. Over 3,000 people came to the Best Practices ministry and so shout out to Christ Church, lutheran and Pastor Schrank and their team you want to talk about a brand, over the top hospitality, caring for people for three days. So, yeah, I'm juiced coming out of that as well and, listener, I pray, you're excited to get to meet James Seleska. James reached out to me and just kind of like a number of people, saying hey, thanks for having the conversation about, yes, theology, yes, mission, but also looking at different topics that we think the church ought to be aware of and this is going to be a masterclass in terms of brand.
Speaker 2:Let me tell you a little bit about James. James is in Frankenmuth, michigan Now. If you know anything about the Lutheran Church Missouri Synod. This is like the motherland of the heartland of the origin story of the LCMS, and I'm going to let him tell a little bit of his story. But he was just telling us he's helped over 12 service companies industries there in Frankenmuth with their redesign around their brand and he started his own company toward that end and is now starting to work with churches as well, as a lot of churches are saying, hey, maybe it's time for us to reconsider the value of brands. So, james, thanks for being with us today. On Lead Time, brother, how are you doing?
Speaker 4:Great. Thank you so much for having me. I appreciate it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, this is going to be great. So what else? What did I leave out in your story and what you're kind of offering right now, james?
Speaker 4:Yeah, so my story starts a little bit further back than that, and so I've been raised Lutheran my whole life. My grandpa actually taught at a seminary, fort Wayne, for a while. My uncle is at a seminary right now. I have another uncle who was a leader of Concordia, and my dad is a teacher. My mom is a teacher. All of them are in Lutheran education.
Speaker 4:And so I went to Concordia, wisconsin, and in school. In high school I really didn't want to take a career where I had to write papers or take tests, and art seemed like a natural progression for me, and so I got into design. It seemed like a great place to be, but one of the things that was always in the back of my head was how do I use this career to further the kingdom of God? And that's been something that I've worked towards over the past 20 years is trying to figure out where do the skills that God has given me exist in the marketplace in a way that I can help out churches? And so I worked at an advertising agency out of college for a while, and then I met my wife and moved to Frankenmuth, and it was there that I started to get into my own stuff.
Speaker 4:I wasn't really intentionally doing that, except that there wasn't a lot of places around that were doing the type of thing that I wanted to do, and so my business has really evolved over that time and because of my strong Lutheran heritage I've been able to connect with the people. I think people say you know, it's not what you know, it's who you know, and so I know a lot of pastors. I broomed with two pastors and I was at Concordia, and so it was a natural progression that that's where my business grew, and so, along with the business that I do in Frankenmuth for local tourism companies, here I do a lot of church related branding and then also outside of you know churches. I do work with districts and the LCMS as well.
Speaker 3:That's a deep need right now.
Speaker 1:It's a huge need.
Speaker 3:Churches need to be looking at their brand with intentionality. I don't care if you're a larger church small church, like identifying.
Speaker 2:Is our brand helping us reach more people with the gospel or is it hurting us? So let's talk brand. Why is understanding brand James important, both in the marketplace or is it hurting us? So let's talk brand. Why is understanding brand James important, both in the marketplace and in the local church?
Speaker 4:Oh well, you've kind of already said that already, but it's about building trust. It's about helping people who are walking into your front door or viewing you online establish ability to see who you are and what you're about, and it's that trust that allows them to see your consistency across all the touch points as well, and so when they're watching videos from your pastors or when they're reading about what you believe or what type of activities you have, they want to be able to tell right away this is a place that I can go and feel comfortable and welcomed and understand what you're about, and so that brand really helps kind of give you that doorway into that story right off the bat.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. What are misperceptions that we often have about brand? Because I think when most people think about this, they think look, they think design, they think logo. But brand is way, way bigger than that. Right, James? Yeah, 100%.
Speaker 4:I would say that, and it's interesting. I think churches, especially right now, are realizing that it goes beyond the logo. So a lot of the places that I'm working with are asking me to design a logo. But then what is it? How does that reach out into the other touch points? What are some of the other ways that we can use that logo to tell our story, and how does that logo reflect the story that we're already trying to tell? And so, like you said, it's much more than just a logo. It's all the different things that help contribute to your church's story and it's all the different pieces and parts that, when people are interacting with you, they can get and they can feel when people are interacting with you, they can get and they can feel yeah, I think that's great.
Speaker 2:Let's talk more about story. People are we're all storied individuals. We see the world through stories. So get a little bit more detailed in terms of how your company helps tell a story, and you can use an example or two. And we've got a lot of listeners, right, james, who are in maybe smaller churches. I already know the devil wants to sway our minds like I can't, I won't, you'll never. I think there's the unfortunate thing about the marketplace today, if you will, the church missional marketplace is you've got a lot of other churches and ministries that you compare yourself to and you're like man, I can never do that. Satan's so wily man. So let's get into how would you help, like a small, medium-sized church, tell their story and how is that connected to brand James?
Speaker 4:Yeah, for sure. I mean number one. It starts with your mission and your vision. And so what are those things that you're trying to hit and who is that person that you're trying to reach? And so I was working with a church recently that really wants to hit outside of the typical person that's attending their service and wants to reach into the community to some of these people who are coming and who have a need that's greater to. Ooh, just a second, sorry, my light just turned off.
Speaker 2:Sorry, all good, all good. If you're watching, I can see it almost looks like the background of James' office. Oh, that looks like your child. How many children do you have, james? I have four children. What are their?
Speaker 4:ages. Well, I just had a newborn, and so he's a month old, and then I've got one that's in preschool, kindergarten and third grade.
Speaker 2:Wow, that's so good. Enjoy your moment, dude. So, yeah, keep going on in terms of story. The church you're helping right now tell their story, yeah.
Speaker 4:So if they want to reach a person that's outside of their typical church goer, how do they tell the story? What does their mission look like? What does their vision look like in order to reflect things that that person needs? And so if that person is maybe a little bit more lower income, how can we tell a story that allows that person to feel comfortable and confident when they walk in the door? What are the things when they land on the website that show that our doors are open and we want to reach out to people like them?
Speaker 3:James, I think you brought up mission statements and, like value statements, I think this is a key thing for organizations is they are powerful brand building tools, but in order for them to be that, you actually have to abide by them. You can't they can't just be something theoretical that you're aspiring to. They actually have to drive behavior of the local church and if it doesn't, it can actually be harmful. If you sit there and say all these things in your mission statement about being welcoming to people but then when you show up there's very poor hospitality. People don't care what that mission statement says. They actually care about the experience that they have. Right. Talk about that a little bit. Maybe sometimes a disconnect that might happen between a mission statement and actually how people behave.
Speaker 4:Yeah, that's really important. One of the things that I really try to do in my work is make sure that I'm aligning with that, in that what they say is what I'm pushing them and helping them align with, and so what I don't want to do is come in and say I think you should be this and that doesn't align with what they think. And so you're absolutely right, other people on your staff or even your congregation that story is irrelevant, because people walk in the door and, all of a sudden, what you've been pushing online is different than what they experience when they come in, and so it is really about aligning all the various touch points, and that's comes back to that idea of branding.
Speaker 4:So it's not just what does that logo look like on the website, but what is the story you're telling the website and does that story then reflected when you walk in the doors? Is your welcome center reiterating that is the stuff that you're handing out, reiterating that story? Is your bulletin reflecting that story? And how are these different elements, all kind of giving pieces, that when the person walks in the door, they feel like they've already met you and they already know who you are and they already know what you're about? And again, you know it comes all the way down to what is the pastor up front and how does the story come out from that perspective as well. And so it really is to me about finding that alignment and making sure that then that's what's filtered down through all the different touch points. So rather than kind of a you know from the bottom up, it's a top down approach and making sure that everything comes in lines.
Speaker 2:That's. That's so good, jack. I'm thinking one of our taglines is you belong here? You probably wouldn't put on your website you don't belong here. Like every church is going to say, yeah, we want to be about hospitality. Go ahead, jack. Maybe they do, maybe they do.
Speaker 3:Sometimes well, not explicitly, but sometimes what a church will do is they'll front first foremost. I don't be careful about calling out a specific church. There's a church that put right on the front of the website we are proud I'm trying to say unashamed of our. This is like the first thing. They start right off the bat. We are proudly liturgical, confessional church, right. So that's great. They're owning what they love. But it also says like if that's not where you are, then you're not going to feel welcome here, right? So you're already right off the bat saying this is who we're for and this is kind of who we're not for by that standpoint we're narrowing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, James, talk about that, because that is a dance. I mean, we want to be true to who we are as confessional Lutherans, but we also believe confessional Lutheranism should be for everybody Like, even if you don't have that sort of a brand indicator.
Speaker 4:You didn't grow up Lutheran LCMS, whatever, like the doors are still wide open for you. How do you help churches, kind of with that dance James, absolutely, I mean. I think a really important part of the website is the beliefs page and I think that's where you get into that type of specific and make sure that people understand these are the touch points. These are the things that we believe in, this is what we stand by and this is what you can see reflected in our service and the way that we worship. I think the rest of the website should really feel like a welcome center.
Speaker 4:And so if you think about, like when you visit a city and you go to their, if you go to the website, what are the things that they're talking about that make you feel like, ooh, I want to check that out, I'm interested in that, and then get into the details of what that's like, where the events held.
Speaker 4:You know what kind of size is a kid friendly, that type of thing. And so if you approach a church website the same way, you get that balance of you still want to give them the core, the meat and potatoes of what you believe. You don't want to hide that, but you also want to make sure that they feel comfortable and confident walking in and they're excited about the experience, and so what are some of the ways that you can tell that story on the website and give them that feeling of there's a lot of fun things going on here. There's a lot of interesting things going on. This is a dynamic, exciting church and I know that it's rooted in what I believe and I can stand strong in what they're doing because at the core of what they do is what they believe.
Speaker 3:Right, yeah, well, before you have something to learn.
Speaker 2:Yeah, let's talk about web design, jack. One of our major dances at Grace Greenfield is the pull toward the website needs to be all things for all people. The pull toward the website needs to be all things for all people, and the website is my one-stop shop for the member as well as for the guest, and that's maybe not a best practice. So what are three principles local churches could take to improve the first impression on their website? James?
Speaker 4:Yeah, I think you really nailed it there. Clarity over complexity is a big thing, and so making sure that it's simple, it's easy to navigate and it's interesting, I think a lot of times you try to throw everything up there and then that message gets diluted and lost over the course of the website. And so what are the key, essential parts? And so I work a lot with churches up front with designing that flow, that user flow of. When they land on the website, where is it that we want to direct them? What's the most important call to action? A lot of the times it's get them in the doors to visit the church. And what are some of the things, what are some of the types of messaging that we'll hear, that they'll hear that will allow them to feel comfortable visiting the church.
Speaker 4:The other thing too, like you said or you kind of alluded to, is the idea that, um, mobile first is really important right now.
Speaker 4:So websites are really important, but they're doing it on their phone.
Speaker 4:So if that website doesn't work well on the phone, if it's not connecting with them, um, you know the, the text is too small or the pictures aren't centered, or or whatever, it's really important that your website works well on the um mobile, and then I think the big one that a lot of churches that I see struggle with right now is authenticity in their storytelling and then just really solid imagery.
Speaker 4:And so if you again you look at the churches that are doing this well, they have fantastic images that make you feel like you belong there and that you that it's a trustworthy establishment and and I think, a current establishment as well, and so constantly updating that stuff, making sure that the event photos are current and that it's exciting and again we go back to that idea of a visitor center. When you land on those sites, you feel like I can be here, I want to be here, and that's what we want to see from a church website as well. Is that, yes, there's worship here, but what are some other exciting ways that I can get involved with this community? What else are they doing besides that?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I love this image of it's a digital welcome center, right center in your courtyard or your narthex or whatever, and you know your audience is guests or people who are new trying to get more connected to the church. What do you have available for people in that welcome center? Well, that's basically what you have on your website as well. That is the audience that you're dealing with and I tell people, virtually 100% of people who are guests to your church will check out your website before they're coming. They're trying to see you know what are they looking at, they're seeing.
Speaker 3:Are you weird? Is this place weird? You know it's kind of. You know. Is it welcoming? What do I do with my kids? How should I dress? What are you know? Obviously basic things like what are the times and how long is the service and stuff like that. But people have questions before showing up and you know the how you communicate to people before they show up, as a form of hospitality, and they really appreciate being informed about these things, right? So thinking about the website primarily is hospitality towards guests, man, and so then, what do you do with stuff that members like member resources, like hey, we're, we're part of the community. What we do is we put that in our app. You know it's like hey, the website is for our guests, the app is for our members, right. Every, every single thing, every single insider resource you could possibly imagine is on our app, right, but everything for the guests is going to be on our website.
Speaker 4:Absolutely yeah, and and that's the way that I design all the websites, and so there's a member portal where everything that's important to them exists there. Like you said a lot of times, that exists within an app if you're doing it well, but we want to make sure that the website is very visitor focused and, primarily, most of the churches that I work with are how, when people land on the website, how, when the visitors land on the website, do we get them in the door so that then we can make those personal connections, because it's great on the website, but it's best, you know, one-on-one when they walk in, and so making sure that it's focused on that is is really important.
Speaker 2:So obviously we're going to be connecting people to, to your company and your services. That's awesome at the end of this, but are there if somebody's looking to redesign their their website? You know who are some of your preferred partners in that work, james.
Speaker 4:I don't really have any preferred me obviously Okay, you do website.
Speaker 2:Okay, well then, don't throw any other names out, just go to James Alaska that's all you need to know.
Speaker 4:No, there's a lot of great Christian adjacent or other organizations that work with churches. Specifically, there's one in Indiana called Fish Hook. They do fantastic work. I'm a big fan of the stuff that they do. Um. There's another one called um oh, plain Joe. They do a lot of um, really big non-denominational church work and they do a lot of architectural work and they're a lot of fun to see with the projects that they're working on.
Speaker 4:Uh, I don't, I don't really have a lot of other. You know, no one's going to. Hopefully no one's coming to me going. Who do you recommend? If you weren't to do this, what would you recommend? But I know a lot of other designers too. It's really interesting to me to watch over the progression of my career too. Designers within the Christian space are really starting to turn a corner too. So I talked about how churches are starting to realize that design is important, but designers are really. There's some really fantastic work done by Christian designers for these churches and you're starting to see these churches have a really impressive creative team that's not only producing the content that's in on Sunday, but also other materials that are just really really well done and so becoming a clearinghouse for that type of stuff I think in today's society is another place where these churches really have the opportunity to grow, and I try to push that to that idea of what, besides Sunday morning, are you doing to feed people what they need?
Speaker 3:to feed people what they need. An interesting thought as it comes to website and we've put a lot of thought into this is if somebody were to tell you in advance that they were coming as a guest, what would you do for that person to make them feel welcome? On Sunday and I don't know that we always use that website as an opportunity to have people let us know that they're coming and then make preparations for that person to feel exceedingly welcomed in their first experience with the church. Any thoughts about that? What you've seen as best practices?
Speaker 4:Yeah, no, you're right, absolutely, and that's why that plan your visit page is so fundamentally important to the church's website is what are the things that you can say to that individual? Again, if we go back to who we're targeting, who's your target audience? What are the types of things that they need? What are the types of experiences that they're having that will allow them to go? This feels like something I can get on board with. There's another church here in Michigan that's doing a great job and they've got a bunch of other ministries that kind of feed into their church, and so they're offering things like a coffee house, and I think they've even got like a place where you can go and get your car fixed, and so all these websites are kind of backed by this church and allow those people who are coming in through other avenues to come back to the church. And I think that that plan your visit kind of page should have some of that ability to say, hey, here's who we are, um, and most of all, we want you to come and meet us.
Speaker 2:We were kind of talking about how the and you've worked in the LCMS. Just to let you know some of some of James work he's a lead designer for the LCMS youth gathering, working with websites, photography for churches all over the U? S and districts and other Christian organizations. Praise God, jack and I have said for some time and this is all based on a relationship and care and because of the, I don't know polarizing, politicized, tribal nature, not just in the world, but can also take place in the LCMS, and it's very unfortunate, I believe our respective brands within the LCMS, from local churches out to institutions and seminaries and Concordia and the LCMS in general. I think we need to be aware of what people who are not in our organization are saying about us, about us, um, and and I don't know again, this is. This is very like. I'm a part of the brand of the, of the lcms, so I take responsibility for what we can take responsibility for. I don't know that the, the wider brand is, is strong for us. I think we need some tune-ups, both in our local local churches as well as the LCMS Inc from St Louis and then across the world.
Speaker 2:So let's just talk. It's all about vision. It's all about casting and telling a better story. So how do you pray? The local church and the LCMS in general start to recognize brands, start to tell a different story and and start to have a brand, because it needs to be a wider brand that reaches it.
Speaker 2:And this is the complexity of like even think about LCMS brand modification. It needs to be a wide story that reaches from rural to very, very confessional, and I I'm confessional but like conservative, um, very, very liturgical, you know, on one end of the spectrum. But then you've got other churches that are very liturgical, but also you know we're going to have different types of worship experiences that are centered in modern instrumentation etc. And churches that are looking to go on mission. I don't so landing this plane. James, if anybody's listened to Lead Time for a while, you know, you know kind of where I don't think we're telling all of the stories that are taking place in the LCMS. That's one of the beautiful things about best practices conference you get to hear all these different types of stories that shape the wider understanding of who we are as a brand in the LCMS. Any kind of comments there, james?
Speaker 4:That's where I let pastor speak. No, I try not to get involved in that part of the story as much, but just again, from my perspective, from the work that I do, I think a lot of it comes back to being relational and being community driven making sure that you're reaching out into your community and sharing the love of Christ with the people outside of your specific, you know, one kind of person, and so opening your doors to all sorts of different people, offering events that allow all sorts of different types of people to come in the doors. And then I just think it's about being authentic, too, and really living out your faith, and so it's great to say this stuff on the website, but, like we talked about in the beginning of the podcast, if you're not living that out, if the people of your, your church, aren't living that faith out in the community and having those relationships where people see them and go, I want to get in on what they've got. Um, you can say whatever you want on the website, it's not going to make a difference. And so I think that's really important, and I think you're really seeing that shift in the church too, of coming back to this idea of you know, making sure that we love the people around us and show them the love of Christ through what we're doing and the actions that we're taking.
Speaker 4:And that comes back to to. You know what we talked about in the beginning, about why I do the Christ through my vocation, and I think you know, when I started my career early on I didn't see that connection and I remember having that kind of like feeling of what am I doing in the world if this work isn't reflecting, you know, jesus in a very specific way, and I think there's both. You can do it both ways. You know it can be very specific church related design work, but how also, am I showing the love of Christ to the other work that I'm doing and how can I make sure that my business reflects that?
Speaker 3:Yeah, when I think about the brand of the early church, marked by two things First, they refused to worship the emperor, which made a lot of people really angry, but then also, they loved each other. Right, this was the story that was being shared Like, this is these weird people that just go above and beyond to love each other and care for the community, and that was very attractive to people. That was a brand that the church held, even though there were certain things that were, like the community might have thought, strange. Hey, they're, you know, they're eating the flesh and drinking the blood of Christ. This is weird. What is that all about? And they won't worship the emperor.
Speaker 3:What's with these strange people? But, man, look at how they're loving each other, like, look at the way that they care for widows and orphans. Look at how they care for people when they're sick. Right, this was the brand of the early church and was one of the things that made the church intriguing to people. Hey, I want to come try it out. I want to see what this community is all about.
Speaker 2:Yeah Well, they were turning the world upside down at 17. And they were willing to. So the two marks Jack I mean not calling anybody, but Jesus Lord that led to immense sacrifice, even willing to give up their lives and who gives up their life for a lie? Right, it's because Jesus said bodily risen from the dead, and so everything else is just gravy Like you can take my life.
Speaker 1:I've already been crucified and risen with Christ and he's going to raise me a remarkable courage.
Speaker 2:He's going to raise me up and I guess if I could pray for one thing in the LCMS, it would be like we would have that sort of robust courage to go out into our communities to share the love of Jesus, to, yes, share wonderful, good doctrine, but so that when we go out it wouldn't be about you've got to look like this, think like this, act like this. We're on mission to love you, meet you exactly where you're at and invite you into a living, active, vibrant relationship with God, the God of the universe, evidence, through his son, the power of the Holy Spirit. But then, just like, you're saying, jack, that you wouldn't have and maybe this is a good way to say it too that you wouldn't have to be a Lutheran, you wouldn't have to have it all figured out. And this is very this. You want to talk about authenticity, james. This is where it goes for, especially with young people, like, will you actually meet me where I'm at All of my failings and I know I've got some belief systems that are out of alignment with the Word of God, I don't know exactly what those are the young person may say but will you meet me where I'm at, love me enough to invite me into this family before I got it all figured out. And that has to be our posture, jack and James, in this post-Christian secular day and age. It just has to. I don't know how else we're going to go about it If we're going out to find the Lutherans, like this church.
Speaker 2:Right, our church, christ Greenfield, is planted because Lutherans were coming to the valley. There are very, very, very few Lutherans now, even in a migratory place like the valley, coming here saying you know what I got to find the local LCMS church. No, there's Mormons, there's pre-Christians, there's people that are all over the map. And will they know us? What is our brand? Will they know us as a place? I could go there and I could maybe meet Jesus there. What would that look like?
Speaker 2:Even if I'm a mess right, even if I'm a hot mess for sure. So yeah, james, anything more to say there as we're coming down the hall, yeah.
Speaker 4:Have you talked to anyone from the youth gathering this year? Do you know the theme of that?
Speaker 2:Isn't it?
Speaker 4:Oh, Endure.
Speaker 2:Endure. Thank you yeah.
Speaker 4:And so I was on the original committee that came up with that theme, and that's exactly what we talked about. Is that, especially with the youth today? Um, what are they going through? What types of things can we help them, um, figure out as a church body and and really help them understand how to live with Christ through all of the different problems, all the different struggles, all the different things that they have? And I think you're absolutely right that we need to find people where they're at and help them walk along that path, regardless of what that looks like.
Speaker 2:Last question how is Jesus giving you joy, right?
Speaker 4:now, james man, there's a lot of ways right now.
Speaker 4:My son was just baptized last weekend and so that's awesome, and raising my kids in the Christian faith has just been an incredible blessing.
Speaker 4:You know, watching them grow up at St Lawrence and having other people feed into them and seeing that relationship grow, seeing the types of stuff that they come home and talk to me about. We were just at the supper table the other day and we asked the question who's your best friend? And my middle child, who's in kindergarten? Right away said Jesus, and my older child, who had already talked, was like, yeah, me too, and it was just really incredible to see that. You know, that relationship already starting to grow and flourish and I love, I love watching the love of Jesus through my children and then seeing you know my ability to create for the creator is is so much fun when I can create a message that you know, like at the youth gathering, that I can see for all of these people coming and that I can see how it's reflecting the gifts that God has given me, and so those types of things are what bring me a lot of joy right now.
Speaker 2:James, you are a gift to the body of Christ, to the Lutheran Church, missouri Synod. So glad you're in a ministry family and you're using your gifts for ministry. And in the marketplace which is ministry you stand on the shoulders of those. So, tim Seleska, one of my favorite profs, he's your uncle, is that right he is, it's interesting.
Speaker 4:Anytime we get a vicar over here, they always ask me that question, and it used to be my grandpa. My grandpa had a lot of people that he taught and so it's fun to be in that lineage and absolutely. And so it's fun to be in that lineage and absolutely and that's part of why I really enjoy the work that I get to do is that it's very rare that I go into one of these things without somebody being like I think I might know somebody related to you.
Speaker 4:And so my middle name is actually Timothy, and so that's usually how I follow that up.
Speaker 2:There you go. Hey man, if people want to connect with you, we're not giving out any other website designer names, it's only James Seleska. How can they connect with you and your work there, brother?
Speaker 4:Yeah, so Seleskacom is my website, so it has everything you need to contact me there, and so that'd be the best way to do it, seleskacom.
Speaker 2:Right, I'm glad you got that name. It seems like someone else in that family lineage would have grabbed Seleskacom. You've got the corner market on it there, james. Well, good stuff, hit them up, seleskacom, if you'd like some help with your brand web design, and it's one of those things. To close, brand identification is not a set it and forget it, right. Jack, it's constantly analyzing what are we saying about ourselves and what are they in the community saying about who we are, and is there connection there, Jack? Any final comments?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean we have a rhythm. We call it our metrics Monday and we are constantly polling Every single month. We're polling people. We're doing net promoter. You're familiar with net promoter probably, but it's basically trying to reverse engineer what are people saying about us so that we understand the brand Is what people are saying about us the same that we're trying to hope people will say about us through our assertion of our brand. And we look at this and we do analysis of every single month. Are we on brand? Are we on brand or are we veering off of brand? So, yeah, my encouragement for people is to just you know it's, it's something that must be curated constantly and if it's, if it's not thought about it, if it's not intentional, then you'll lose it. So that's just a word of encouragement for people. But you can be an intentional about it and make positive differences on it. It is something you can do, so that's the good thing about it. Yeah, go ahead bro.
Speaker 2:Yeah, man, If you're someone that doesn't like challenging conversations, don't talk about brand. That's right. Right, Because it's going to be well. We think we're this, but we're obviously not this yet. We like to aspire toward this, but we're not this yet.
Speaker 3:Go ahead, jack. Yeah well, sometimes the analysis of your brand, actually hearing what the community says, is an opportunity for repentance. It's an opportunity for confession and absolution and it's an opportunity for, I would say, sometimes hard, difficult conversations and an opportunity to die and be reborn again in the uh, as uh you know, in the mission of Christ and moving forward with it. So, um, you know, the good news is that, uh, we all, you know, confession and absolution is for all of us, including church leaders that maybe have missed the target on trying to reach the community, and every single day is a new day with, uh, with the absolution of.
Speaker 2:Christ, amen, amen. It's a great day to grow, to grow up into Jesus, who is our leader, our Lord. He loves you, regardless of how solid your brand is as a church leader, like it doesn't matter, so there's freedom here in this conversation right, there's a freedom to say, okay, let's just take that 1% next step to grow as a ministry offering it all to the Lord.
Speaker 2:It's all His. We're just stewarding it in our short days. So this is a lead time conversation. It's been kind of a longer conversation around the topic of brand. I hope it is a blessing to you as you take your next steps as a leader, whether it's in a formal vocational role or out in the marketplace. You are a leader, a missionary, bringing the love and light of Jesus into a dark and dying world. It's a good day. Go and make it a great day. Wonderful work, James. Thanks for hanging with us, brother.
Speaker 4:Thank you so much, I appreciate it.
Speaker 1:You've been listening to lead time, a podcast of the unite leadership collective. The ULC's mission is to collaborate with the local church to discover church to discover, develop and deploy leaders through biblical Lutheran doctrine and innovative methods To partner with us in this gospel message. Subscribe to our channel, then go to theuniteleadershiporg to create your free login for exclusive material and resources and then to explore ways in which you can sponsor an episode. Thanks for listening and stay tuned for next week's episode.